Episode 163 — The Coming Catholic Collapse: What Happens When The Boomers Are Gone? — W/ TLM Ryan

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[0:02:29] You'll get 10% off your order and 20% will go [0:02:32] to fight the abortion initiative here in Idaho. [0:02:35] And last but not least, our friends at atlasbullion.com. [0:02:38] If you're sick and tired of working for money, [0:02:40] that gets devalued with runaway money printing. [0:02:43] You can start stacking precious metals. [0:02:45] Get all the links to all of our sponsors [0:02:46] in the show notes below. [0:02:49] And without any further ado, [0:02:52] we are going to introduce our guest here, [0:02:56] TLM Ryan. [0:02:58] And we've got, [0:03:00] I've got his little bio here that I'll read. [0:03:03] TLM Ryan is the host of Preconciliar Radio, [0:03:06] a YouTube channel dedicated to exploring [0:03:08] the richness of the traditional Latin mass. [0:03:10] pre-conciliar Catholic tradition and the realities of the modern church. [0:03:16] His content appeals to traditional Catholics seeking honest analysis, solid formation, [0:03:20] and a deeper connection with the pre-conciliar faith at a time of unprecedented confusion and crisis. [0:03:27] Ryan, thank you so much for joining me tonight. [0:03:30] Thank you so much for having me. [0:03:32] Yeah. [0:03:33] So the reason I wanted to bring you on is because you wrote this article for Integrity Magazine. [0:03:40] And again, another friend of the show, the counter-revolution will be victorious. [0:03:45] The Novus Ordo is dying. [0:03:48] So in this article, of course, you go through some of the statistics and the demographics [0:03:54] of who actually makes up the church, what age are they, and how often they go to mass. [0:04:02] If you could please just give us like a thumbnail sketch of the article, your thesis, [0:04:07] and what you see happening to the Church over the next decade. [0:04:12] Right. [0:04:13] So there's, you know, when I say that the counter-revolution will be successful, [0:04:19] that's kind of Integrity Magazine's catchphrase for traditional Catholics. [0:04:24] What I did about a year ago was start looking into the demographic health of the Novus Ordo [0:04:32] as well as the demographic health of traditional Catholics. [0:04:37] By traditional, I mean those who attend the Latin Mass with regularity. [0:04:43] And what I found was quite shocking. [0:04:44] In fact, there's all types of theological arguments people will make about why these groups are so different. [0:04:50] But on a demographic sense, in terms of both retention rates in the faith as well as children per family, it is like night and day. [0:05:03] almost completely different practices between these two groups and what we also have coming up [0:05:10] is the death of the baby boomer generation as well as the rest of the silent generation [0:05:16] there's about a million silent generation catholics who attend mass weekly [0:05:23] so we're going to see in the next 10 years probably about 20 percent of the people who [0:05:31] currently occupy a pew seat weekly will no longer be there they will pass on and in about 20 to 25 [0:05:39] years 40 will be completely gone the reason for this being obviously is that silent and boomer [0:05:48] generations do attend to the novice ordo with much higher degrees of frequency than gen x [0:05:55] millennials or gen z uh now that doesn't mean that their retention rate is good or that their [0:06:02] mass attendance rate is good it's just significantly better than the generations that followed them [0:06:07] so the council certainly did a number of these individuals many of them just left the faith [0:06:13] entirely but of those that remain they are they are about 35 to 40 percent of the church right now [0:06:21] and nobody lives forever. [0:06:26] So I took a look at that [0:06:27] and then I also combined it with what I call offense and defense. [0:06:31] Offense being the number of children you have [0:06:34] and defense being how likely it is for those children to remain Catholic [0:06:39] just based on what liturgy you attend. [0:06:42] And what I found was that the Novus Ordo, [0:06:45] we have about 60 years of data to go off of. [0:06:50] The Novus Ordo is not a sustainable project. [0:06:53] All it does is a die. [0:06:56] So by two ways. [0:06:58] One is nobody stays in there. [0:07:01] In fact, the highest retention rate, [0:07:03] because if you look at all retention rate, [0:07:05] it's like 17%. [0:07:07] But if you look at, [0:07:10] so I tried to be generous [0:07:11] and I used retention rate of those who attend weekly. [0:07:17] Which if you think about it, [0:07:19] attending Novus Ordo weekly is a decent indicator of trying to be a faithful Catholic in a conciliar [0:07:26] church. And that retention rate, as you highlighted there, was only 30%. When you compound that with [0:07:32] the fact that people in the Novus Ordo don't have as many children, you're losing less children [0:07:41] are born and more of them leave. Whereas in the TLM, it's the complete opposite. [0:07:45] it uh the the amount of children born to a family is about double and their retention rate is more [0:07:54] than double about 75 75 to 80 percent um now they will still suffer from uh issues of boomer deaths [0:08:03] but just like the church 300 years ago 400 500 a thousand years ago generations die new generations [0:08:10] take their place um so i've got tons of different stats we could get into to show just how horrifying [0:08:16] this is going to be just how bad it'll be uh but that's the general thesis that's the the cliff [0:08:22] notes version uh and the data here is long-standing this isn't just like a blip where we're observing [0:08:28] this from a decade or two decades worth of data this is data from 60 years uh three generate three [0:08:35] or four generations. And it's long, it's longstanding. The trend is obvious. The trend [0:08:40] is not reversing. It's actually getting worse. So that is, that is what faces the church. [0:08:48] It's not good. No, no, clearly not. And it is, it is interesting. Do you happen to have, [0:08:56] and you might've done it while I was looking at something, but do you happen to have [0:09:00] the birth rate offhand for traditional Catholics. [0:09:05] I remember there was a priest whose name escapes me now. [0:09:10] He was stationed up in Connecticut. [0:09:12] Yep. [0:09:14] And I had done an interview with him back in, I think it was 2015. [0:09:19] And he had posited that there was about, [0:09:22] was it 4.8 to 5 children per traditional Latin mass going couple. [0:09:30] Right. [0:09:30] compared to less than the national average, it was about 1.6 for the Novus Ordo. It was like [0:09:39] actually lower, like the national average or whatever I think right now is like 1.8 [0:09:44] children per married couple, which is of course below replacement, below the replacement rate. [0:09:50] But in the Novus Ordo, it was actually 1.6. It was even lower. So mainstream whatever Catholics [0:09:58] are actually having less kids than just the national average. [0:10:02] So I also spoke with that priest many times, [0:10:07] and I blank on his name. [0:10:11] It's in that graph that a lot of people share all the time. [0:10:14] So I could look it up if we need to give him due credit. [0:10:17] But yes, he did a massive study of Catholic behavior and beliefs [0:10:21] based on if they attend the TLM versus the Novus Ordo. [0:10:25] It's not quite that bad. [0:10:28] But it is separating. So from his data, which was, it's kind of old now. It's not incredibly old. It's certainly still statistically valid. Everything he did was stellar work. But he did admit to me he thinks we need to do it again. [0:10:47] at the time, I think it was pulling data from anywhere from 2017 to 2019. And it showed that [0:10:54] TLM Catholics had about 3.6 children on average. That was from Q 2015, I think. [0:11:05] And what did the Novus Ordo have here? They had... [0:11:09] should have written it down i thought it was 2.1 no 2.1 is the replacement rate i think it was like [0:11:17] 1.9 at the time and in discussions with him he had he'd theorized because he's looking at things [0:11:24] in europe that the catholics in europe track just like 0.1 or 0.2 above the secular world [0:11:32] they're almost indistinguishable and what he said was that well due to the fact that in america we [0:11:38] since COVID, we've dipped down, I think, to like 1.7, 1.6. [0:11:45] 1.6. [0:11:46] He thinks the Novus Ordo has probably dipped to like 1.7 at this junction. [0:11:52] I believe he had data come out that did confirm that. [0:11:57] Yes, if I'm recalling correctly, he does. [0:11:59] Now, what we don't know is if the TLM group has inched up. [0:12:04] 3.6 is actually pretty historically low for traditional Catholics. [0:12:11] We know that before the council, the average was about 5 to 5.5. [0:12:16] A lot of the reason for that at this juncture is the fact that the TLM is drawing in many people from contraceptive environments. [0:12:24] So we have less TLMers who are cradle TLMers. [0:12:30] So if you're a cradle TLM-er, as TLM Catholics, they contracept at like a 1% rate. [0:12:35] Only about 1% of them use contraception. [0:12:37] It's a pronatal, anti-contraceptive environment. [0:12:41] If you're a cradle TLM-er, you can probably have eight kids, right? [0:12:47] But if you're in your 30s, you've been at the Novus Ordo, you've been an atheist, whatever, [0:12:52] you've been in a contraceptive environment, and then you have a conversion, [0:12:56] maybe you only have two kids. [0:12:57] you know you may have one or two more right so it's it's going to weigh down the average [0:13:02] but 3.6 it's one of the highest of all religions um and it is we we have anecdotal data and he [0:13:12] theorizes that it's growing now and and i can speak personally in my parish it's it's a little [0:13:18] bit of an older diocesan tlm community we hit 5.5 on average because my priest traps all these things [0:13:24] and we hit 5.5 about a couple years ago. [0:13:27] He was very excited, made an announcement [0:13:29] that we finally achieved pre-Vatican II status. [0:13:34] It was a birth rate. [0:13:35] So the point being is the gulf has only widened. [0:13:41] And yeah, there is really no difference [0:13:44] between a Novus Ordo Catholic and the secular world. [0:13:49] On average, obviously, [0:13:51] and I've visited Novus Ordo parishes here and there, [0:13:53] You see the one family that's still sticking with it, but they're like the only one, the rest of them. And so when you do mass averages, this kind of gets sorted out. [0:14:03] So what you're telling me basically is that maybe Bishop Goldaddy had a point in his first homily. [0:14:11] I'm going to play that real quick for those that didn't see this circulating. [0:14:15] Of course, we covered this on the show about a month ago. [0:14:20] Yeah, a month ago when the Society of St. Pius X consecrated four bishops against the will of Rome [0:14:28] and the very first words out of their mouth. [0:14:32] this is this is it of course today we see such wreckage if if the catholic church in her tradition [0:14:42] brings forth life the modernist church is a desert it kills it kills everything that it touches [0:14:51] it kills the supernatural life it kills the the sources of grace it dries up up everything [0:15:01] because it has placed man in the place of God and therefore turned away from the sources of life. [0:15:09] So this is a reminder today to be faithful, to be faithful to the sacred entrustment [0:15:14] which our Lord has given to his church and continues down through the apostolic tradition. [0:15:23] Wow. So, of course, that knocked a lot of people's socks off. [0:15:27] They were like, oh, but it's true. It's true. [0:15:30] I mean, you go to these diocesan Novus Ordo parishes, and, you know, I hate to say it like that, you know, because it sounds like I'm looking down on these people, and I'm not, you know. [0:15:43] I've said it before. [0:15:44] I'll say it again. [0:15:45] I think it is possible for you to be a Catholic and attend the Novus Ordo. [0:15:50] Just because you go to the Novus Ordo doesn't mean that you're some sort of modernist heretic or something like that. [0:15:56] But it's obvious. [0:15:57] You walk in, and it's elderly. [0:16:00] Everybody. There's no kids. I mean, right now you can kind of hear in the background here at my house, we've got some kids screaming. And then you go to a Latin mass parish, regardless of whether it's SSPX, if it's an adult, if it's a fraternity of St. Peter Parish, the kids outnumber the adults almost every single time. It's crazy. Why is that? Why is that? Can you enlighten me? [0:16:30] Well, I can only opine. [0:16:36] I think the bishop is correct. [0:16:43] It's probably highly complicated, but I think at the end, that would be the most obvious culprit, is that the Novus Ordo worships man. [0:16:53] They do physically, even if subtly, with ad poplam, when they face the people. [0:17:00] Um, nobody who reformed the mass would dare say it, but it has a cognitive dissonance that it seeps into the faithful. [0:17:12] The sloppy participation of the mass, uh, certainly makes it feel more man-centered. [0:17:19] uh you see the things coming out of rome probably specifically the last 10 to 15 years [0:17:26] speaks of infinite dignity human dignity the pope bows before the migrants dignity [0:17:33] this is all very humanistic overly humanistic the worship of man um the worship of god requires [0:17:41] sacrifice and as you know having children is an ascetic lifestyle um it's it's difficult [0:17:49] it requires sacrifice to contracept is yeah there's the quote to contracept is to put yourself [0:17:59] and your comforts first uh but and so this just goes part and parcel i actually remember right [0:18:07] before I was about to convert, I was speaking to some probably baby boomer-aged Catholic women. [0:18:12] They were so excited that I was Catholic, but they wanted to assure me, oh, don't worry. [0:18:18] You don't have to do that birth control stuff. Nobody listens to that. [0:18:24] No, that's the attitude of the majority of Catholics. [0:18:29] 99%, I wrote another article for Integrity, [0:18:31] and there was a study that came out that 99% of Catholic women have contraceptive. [0:18:37] um now you go now the the study that we were just discussing that priest did he showed [0:18:42] contraceptive rates amongst the difference the different groups and 98 percent of traditional [0:18:50] catholics do not and like 98 percent of the novus ordo does so i don't really know why it is but i [0:19:01] mean it's not it you know and it's also another thing if you think about when pope francis did [0:19:05] that weird thing with the catechism and he tried to dismantle the death penalty i always thought [0:19:11] that was weird like of of you know because modernism seeks to destroy it just as the bishop [0:19:17] said destroy and kill everything but why would you start there well because if you have infinite [0:19:24] dignity and man is your idol you can't kill can't kill your god right yeah i mean that's just a [0:19:32] theory that i had but it the evidence is overwhelming um i actually have some new data [0:19:39] i'd like to if you don't mind to share with you in terms of what because the church knows this [0:19:44] what the what the church in the united states again i focus my stats there what they are planning for [0:19:51] all of this uh you can google right now parish closure plans for the catholic diocese and it'll [0:20:00] be like one of the first two links and they are publicly disclosed consolidation plans [0:20:05] here which one is it diocesan restructuring that one the catholic project i'll know once [0:20:12] you click on it uh no the catholic project this one right yep i think this one's it [0:20:19] and scroll down you'll probably see yes this is it and you can literally go diocese by diocese [0:20:28] Go ahead and click on Peoria right there. [0:20:31] I wrote these down. [0:20:33] Look at that, 156 to 75. [0:20:36] Wow. [0:20:38] I've got some others for you. [0:20:40] Cincinnati is going to go from 208 to 57. [0:20:44] I just read Peoria. [0:20:46] Seattle is going from 136 to 60. [0:20:48] Sioux City is going from 74 to 34. [0:20:51] Albany is going, is closing 33. [0:20:55] I did the research to see how much that is. [0:20:57] That's 20%. [0:20:58] that they're going to cut um allentown is going from 151 to 104 baltimore 61 to 30 buffalo 160 [0:21:07] to 79 um camden's going 124 to 66 chicago has closed 110 since the council and they have [0:21:18] demolished another 57 cleveland has cut 52 detroit is going from 216 to 51 quote-unquote families [0:21:27] and i just got tired of writing the rest you can go and look at that that's the reality of what's [0:21:33] happening here unbelievable nobody nobody and it's what's crazy to me is nobody really talks [0:21:38] about it and reads it off like that but those are just the ones that have made this public [0:21:44] that's incredible website this is universal the only place we see growth and it's false growth [0:21:52] is in the South. And that's because of, we're having a second great migration right now, [0:22:00] where people from the Northeast, Midwest, basically the North are coming down South. [0:22:06] The North is traditionally Catholic. So you're getting some hanger-ons that are coming, [0:22:12] but on net. So, you know, like you may be building parishes in Texas or Arizona, [0:22:18] but you're losing more in the north we have lost 3 000 parishes this is how i'll show you how things [0:22:26] are escalating on a nationwide basis so we have lost 3 000 parishes since 1990 overall net loss [0:22:35] so it doesn't matter if the south is doing good the north is doing twice as bad so you have a net [0:22:41] loss. So what happened was from 1990 to 2014, we lost 12% of our total parishes from the peak in [0:22:52] 1990, which was 19,620. We went down to about 17,000. But from just 2014 to 2019, we dropped [0:23:02] another thousand so it took us 24 years to lose 2 000 it only took us five years to lose a thousand [0:23:12] more recently so things are picking up yeah we lost seven seven percent of our parishes in the [0:23:19] united states closed in just five years i don't have data to show what's gone beyond 2019 that [0:23:27] website shows the plans but it is accelerating and it's accelerating for precisely the reason i [0:23:34] spoke about earlier which is that the older generations who do two main important things [0:23:39] they attend more frequently so you need to accommodate them you need a parish to house them [0:23:44] um they attend weekly more often which means they're more likely to tithe and they have the [0:23:52] most money baby boomers uh have 50 of all the wealth in this country if you add on the silent [0:23:59] generation again about a million silent generation catholics attend weekly uh they probably have [0:24:05] another 10 of the wealth so you've got 60 of all parish financial resources are literally dying on [0:24:15] the vine. Yeah. Yeah. This is the, uh, the Google, the Google breakdown, but yeah, 50% [0:24:23] is held by the boomers, arguably the most selfish generation to have ever existed on God's green [0:24:31] earth. Unbelievable. So what's, what do you think is going to happen then? So, I mean, [0:24:39] these Novus Ordo parishes are going to get blown out. [0:24:44] They're going to get turned into mosques or whatever. [0:24:47] What about the traditional parishes? [0:24:50] I mean, we saw, I think it was just yesterday, [0:24:54] you know, Pope Leo put out some document [0:24:55] praising Gregorian chant, [0:24:57] and it's like, okay, got it. [0:25:00] So you're just going to, [0:25:00] you're going to abolish the Latin mass, aren't you? [0:25:03] Like, it's, you know, it's like the exact opposite of, [0:25:06] you know, they're putting out [0:25:07] and they're posturing towards the traditionalists like, oh, yeah, sure, sure. [0:25:11] We like, you know, Gregorian chant. [0:25:13] And it's they're going to rug pull it, aren't they? [0:25:16] That's somebody tweeted that. [0:25:19] What I will say is they're not going to act fast enough to save these buildings. [0:25:23] The buildings will be the greatest casualty here because at this juncture, the Novus Ordo track is not sustainable. [0:25:32] It's actually precisely what Bishop Goldaddy said. [0:25:35] it just slowly kills [0:25:38] I actually did a study in France [0:25:43] I didn't do the study, I reported on the study [0:25:45] where monasteries that celebrated their liturgy [0:25:49] in the vernacular [0:25:51] 30% had closed since 2007 [0:25:54] I think it was like [0:25:57] 18% closed if they mixed in some Latin [0:26:01] and zero closed [0:26:04] that said the liturgy exclusively in Latin. [0:26:08] So the Novus Ordo is a poison. [0:26:11] It just depends on how concentrated the dose is. [0:26:14] This is a statistical reality. [0:26:16] If you view the health of your parish or your monastery as the body, [0:26:23] you can only view the Novus Ordo as poison. [0:26:28] And the more traditional it gets, the less concentrated the poison is. [0:26:34] That's why I found it very curious that if you even mixed in some Latin, which would also indicate that there were other traditional practices going on there, that it still died, but it died less quickly. [0:26:46] So the Novus Ordo, as it's been implemented, I don't really care about the unicorn ones that are reverent, as there's too few of them. [0:26:55] So on the whole, they're dying. Now, if Pope Leo wants to take away the Latin Mass and then institute some type of super reverent Latin Novus Ludo, the research out of France shows that it will simply mitigate the collapse. It will not save the church. This is just what the math says. [0:27:16] um so but to your point contrasting this with the uh the latin mass communities well the diocesan [0:27:24] ones are difficult because of course you have tradition as custoders um there's a by the way [0:27:31] this is the channel that we run here is not like an exclusively uh catholic channel just fyi we've [0:27:39] got uh some mormons a lot of pagans some white people that don't go to church so uh can you [0:27:46] explain what Tradiciones Custodes is for those that are unaware? Tradiciones Custodes was basically, [0:27:54] if you want to think of it in political terms, it was an executive order by the Pope [0:27:58] restricting the Latin Mass at the diocesan level. The diocesan level being the traditional and [0:28:06] standard way to organize a bishop who oversees the priests, who oversees the various churches [0:28:12] within the diocese. It's an organizational structure. And it used to be under Pope Benedict [0:28:18] that any priest who had consent of the people in the parish would learn how to say the Latin Mass. [0:28:26] And so you had a ton of these Latin Mass parishes popping up because people wanted it. [0:28:34] And Pope Francis didn't like that. So what he did was say that, I think, I forget how it first went. [0:28:40] It was a rather sloppy rollout of this. [0:28:43] I think it came down to, well, now the bishop could say no, [0:28:45] because it used to be the bishop couldn't, even if the bishop hated the Latin mass, [0:28:49] he couldn't say no. [0:28:51] Then it was the bishops couldn't say no. [0:28:53] And then when so few bishops did anything, [0:28:56] they revised it again to say that now the bishop has to ask Rome for permission. [0:29:02] So they basically rolled it back all the way to the top in terms of permission. [0:29:05] and um even now many bishops still don't actually adhere to that and they quietly [0:29:12] permit this to go on i actually have the data for how damaging this has been [0:29:18] before tradition is custodious there's 658 diocesan tlm options um afterwards and this [0:29:25] number is disputed afterwards it's now down to 458 so they lost literally 200 but from what i [0:29:33] I dug into that number, and the way they calculated that was just when they removed the mass from the bulletin, which that was another kind of twisted thing about tradition as custodians that said you couldn't list your mass on the bulletin. [0:29:48] Like, you basically had to—you could still have it, but then you couldn't tell people about it. [0:29:52] Again, many bishops ignored this. [0:29:54] But what ended up happening was the study calculated all of those. [0:29:59] so i tried my best to get the real number and i think the real number is about a hundred [0:30:05] that we've lost since tradition of custodians out of 658 the other hundred are simply not [0:30:11] advertised but they still go on for now um but the point being is when that was permitted when [0:30:20] the latin mass at the diocesan level was permitted it was wildly popular albeit with a minority of [0:30:26] catholics but it was gaining traction and all it did was grow all it did was grow because you had [0:30:33] none in uh what was it 2007 when pope benedict permitted it and then it it exploded to 658 [0:30:41] now there's other groups that operate quasi within a diocesan level and like for the sspx [0:30:50] outside of a diocesan level. [0:30:52] So in America, there's 50 from a group called the FSSP. [0:30:58] I forget what that stands for, fraternity. [0:30:59] Fraternity of St. Peter. [0:31:01] Yeah. [0:31:02] And then the SSPX, obviously, the fraternity of St. Pius X. [0:31:07] And then there's the Institute of Christ the King. [0:31:11] Institute of Christ the King is the smallest. [0:31:13] They have 13 parishes in America, at least from my research. [0:31:18] uh fssp has 50 and the sspx has 103 all of them are growing they have and they're global too i [0:31:27] should say i only focused on um america but they are all three of these groups are global [0:31:36] on almost every column yeah it's uh it's gonna get wild here i think you know and it's i remember i [0:31:46] had a friend, this was while I was living in Indiana, and, you know, he goes to the, you know, [0:31:52] went to the Novus Ordo or whatever, and he was complaining to me, actually, that the priest there [0:32:00] was beginning to implement parts of the Mass in Latin, right? This guy, I mean, good guy, [0:32:06] you know, actually Catholic, his heart's in the right place, but he, you know, he grew up with [0:32:12] the Novus Ordo. And all of a sudden people start coming into the church, younger people, [0:32:19] you know, the, the, the size of the church, from what I understand doubled in like the five or 10 [0:32:25] year period when we were, when this conversation was taking place back in, was it 2018 or 2019? [0:32:32] And, you know, to appease these new people, the, the new young priest that had come in starts, [0:32:39] you know, implementing a little bit of Latin, implementing a little bit of Gregorian chant. [0:32:43] And all of a sudden, you know, this guy's like, well, I don't understand half of the mass anymore. [0:32:48] You know, these these these people are, you know, they're destroying what I've grown up with and what I know and love. [0:32:55] And it's like I'm sitting there and I'm telling them, like, what what do you think happened in the 1970s? [0:33:01] How do you think Catholics felt back then? [0:33:04] You know, just having the entire mass, literally one Sunday, you know, you go from the Latin mass to nationwide. It's completely different. It's in the vernacular, you know. [0:33:17] And so it is interesting, you know, because there's been a lot of, you know, debate, of course, also with like, well, if you were pope, what would you do? [0:33:25] You know, what would how would you handle this situation? [0:33:28] You know, would you just go out and ban the Novus Ordo? [0:33:31] Would you do X, Y or Z? [0:33:32] And it's like, I don't think that any of that's even going to be necessary. [0:33:38] You know, the question is going to be, though, like the institutions of the church are still going to be in the hands of liberals. [0:33:47] People like Tuco Fernandez, et cetera, et cetera. [0:33:52] And so, you know, how are they going to respond to this? [0:33:59] Because they are completely committed to this failing project, this experiment even, if you will. [0:34:07] I don't think it's an experiment. [0:34:08] I think it was an assault on the faith. [0:34:12] But, yeah, it's – [0:34:15] well that that depends on if they're motivated by money or if they're motivated by tearing it all [0:34:23] down unfortunately i think many of them particularly now uh are motivated by tearing it all down [0:34:30] they do not want to see the church as it was ever resurface that's why it was so funny i was talking [0:34:39] to some people [0:34:40] I think in like January [0:34:42] about a potential [0:34:45] SSPX [0:34:46] consecration. This hadn't even been [0:34:49] announced by the society. [0:34:51] And a lot of people [0:34:52] pretty traditional Catholics, [0:34:55] TLM goers, were like, ah, Leo's not going to [0:34:57] do anything. It'll be fine. [0:35:00] And I actually [0:35:01] disagreed with every single person [0:35:03] on that panel. I forget who it was. [0:35:05] I said no, because [0:35:06] the only thing that threatens [0:35:08] the conciliar church is preconceivable [0:35:12] Catholicism. It's the only thing that they will lash out [0:35:16] against. They cannot look at what they killed. It fills them with too much [0:35:20] shame. Now, on the other hand, you may have some cardinals who [0:35:24] just like to drink Italian wine and live in their fancy [0:35:28] palaces. And when Francis cut [0:35:32] their stipend because the church is going bankrupt, [0:35:35] that angered them and if they're we want hedonists you want a good italian hedonist [0:35:42] because then he will just do whatever brings the money in slashing tlms it's just not good for the [0:35:53] long it's i put it like this and i don't believe that renewable energy is that you know the way to [0:36:00] go. But here's the theory with renewables is that you've got this finite oil. So let's keep [0:36:07] the oil in the cars and have a little R&D on the side with something else in the event that the [0:36:14] finite resource runs out. So you diversify your assets. That's what the church should do [0:36:21] if it's smart and if it doesn't want to admit that it failed, is I suppose you use the Novus [0:36:27] order to keep the baby boomer money rolling in while you also work on your r d over on the tlm [0:36:33] side or the notice order in latin side that would be if you're a if you're a hedonist cardinal who [0:36:40] just wants to live it up and there's plenty on them that's what you would do but if you're a [0:36:45] true believer you won't you you would rather rule over ashes than have to confront what the what [0:36:54] the Catholic church teaches and how it used to worship God. So this really gets down to each [0:37:00] individual and their motivations. I think if you just look at the evidence coming out of Rome right [0:37:04] now, it's a lot of true believers. If Leo is doing what I think he's doing, which is trying to, [0:37:11] I mean, he's acting too slow. That's the other thing is people don't realize how quickly this, [0:37:16] particularly with the boomer deaths, they don't realize how quickly this is going. [0:37:19] I actually I can tell you exactly on average how many baby boomers will die each year per parish. [0:37:28] And it will show you how many of these parishes will simply even besides the plans to close them. [0:37:36] How that will probably those numbers will need to be revised again. [0:37:39] So like in Peora, it was like what? 150 to 56, whatever. [0:37:44] 56 will probably need to be revised again. [0:37:49] so if if it's leo's plan to do that he's one he's moving too slow to a bad option um [0:37:58] and it would only serve to kind of keep the facade that everything's going well [0:38:06] going um otherwise he would have just he would have just rescinded tradition as custodes and [0:38:12] let the tlm flourish again they can't they're stuck between a rock and a hard place it's do [0:38:17] we rule over ashes or do we permit the tlm like they don't want the tlm they don't want the old [0:38:24] catholic way so they're i mean they're they will lose it's just a matter of time and it may it's [0:38:31] it's this is what's difficult when i do give the projection i've and i've projected it out about [0:38:36] when will latin masses in america eclipse the novus ordos in france it's actually should be [0:38:44] in the next 20 to 30 years because they have a higher per capita traditional straight like the [0:38:49] faith was wiped out after world war one and world war two so they kind of have they have a 20-year [0:38:54] head start on us but it won't be in our lifetime but it will be in our children's lifetime um that's [0:39:02] just so so this is just the way it's going to go and even if they shut down all the diocesan ones [0:39:06] and you can only rely on the sspx that that pushes you 300 years out um which you know people don't [0:39:15] like that we have a lot of tiktok brain we want to be able to see it we only want to wait one year [0:39:20] before like we're launching crusades again but if you actually look at where the church started in [0:39:26] 33 a.d and where it wound up in 325 a.d the traditionalist groups like the sspx are tracking [0:39:33] at a, literally at a similar rate, if not slightly better than the early apostles in [0:39:39] terms of a percentage of the world that they are converting. [0:39:43] So it will happen. [0:39:45] The Novus Ordo is completely unsustainable. [0:39:48] Literally all it does is die. [0:39:50] Yeah. [0:39:51] Yeah. [0:39:51] I remember seeing an article, I'm looking for it now and it's not popping up, but I [0:39:56] remember seeing the comparison being made between the early church and the SSPX and [0:40:01] the fact that the growth rate was nearly identical. Now, for those of you that are like oblivious or [0:40:08] unaware or haven't been paying attention, I've got a couple of charts here that show some of [0:40:14] the direct consequences. And here's one of them. This is diocesan ordinations per 1 million Catholics. [0:40:23] The black line is the average. Then they're looking at, you know, Boston, Chicago, Houston, [0:40:28] LA and New York. You can see very clearly in 1945, 1955, things are going pretty good. 1965, [0:40:40] there's a steep decline that just goes parabolic. And, you know, you can see where we are now. [0:40:49] There are some diet, most dioceses, I think even are lucky to have one ordination [0:40:56] per year. I mean, it's just, it's not happening. Then you can also look at [0:41:03] how many religious nuns there were. This chart goes from 1965 to 2014. You can see this precipitous [0:41:15] decline, especially between 65 and 75, which had the highest rate of people just, you know, [0:41:22] fleeing, throwing the habit off and, you know, tucking tail and running. But it's been a steady [0:41:29] decline ever since 1975. It's not growing. And it's really interesting because there's kind of [0:41:36] a dichotomy here where on the one hand, we've been bombarded over the years with these articles [0:41:42] about people converting to Catholicism. We've been seeing, you know, record numbers of baptisms in [0:41:48] Paris and in the United States, people converting at very high rates, but they aren't converting [0:41:56] faster than the boomers are dying. I think they're not even converting faster than the [0:42:05] cradles leave. The church is made up of 2% of converts. We are hyping up and I love every [0:42:13] convert that comes in i'm a convert myself but the number one problem in the church right now [0:42:19] is retention so if i convert and i go to the novice ordo and i have 10 kids only three of [0:42:26] them on average are going to remain catholic so you got to ask yourself and that would that would [0:42:31] put me in a growth metric right because i would have i would have added you know me and my wife [0:42:37] are Catholic and then I have three who remain of the 10 that's a plus one so if that's your [0:42:45] if that's your retention rate every single Novus Ordo woman needs to be having 10 babies [0:42:49] or the church dies now go to your now go to your local Novus Ordo and ask yourself if that's [0:42:55] happening and if you think I'm dooming too much ask yourself this does the Novus Ordo have do [0:43:02] the Novus Ordo women have more babies than the TLM because if you want your Novus Ordo to stay [0:43:06] alive you have to have double what the tlm mamas are having and we know that's not true [0:43:11] so the converts don't matter hate to say it and i'm saying that as one and i know there's there's [0:43:19] all these jokes online about converts versus cradles yeah converts do matter of course every [0:43:24] soul matters but in terms of the church being healthy those converts have to be in a system [0:43:29] where their children have a retention at least higher than 50%. [0:43:34] Or you have to have a ton of children. [0:43:38] There's just no ifs, ands, buts about that. [0:43:41] You will not grow if you don't meet that threshold. [0:43:45] And the TLM attendees meet both. [0:43:47] They have more children and they retain them. [0:43:52] I've heard a couple of people who disagree with me there, [0:43:55] and they say, well, then why hasn't the TLM completely overtaken the Novus Hortum? [0:43:59] Like, guys, it's been 60 years. [0:44:02] That's it. [0:44:03] That's maybe two and a half generations. [0:44:05] So what you're talking about here is you have to, and by the way, the TLM was not widely available until about 2007. [0:44:13] Right. [0:44:14] So you're really not even talking about 60 years. [0:44:17] You're talking about maybe 60 years for the SSPI. [0:44:20] Right. [0:44:20] Now, their growth mimics this. [0:44:22] They went from, what, 12 or so priests. [0:44:25] Now they have 700 priests, probably more. [0:44:28] I think it's underreported right now. [0:44:32] They're all over the place. [0:44:34] So it does take time, but the numbers are there. [0:44:39] Yeah, that's incredible. [0:44:41] What did you convert from? [0:44:45] Well, I grew up, my parents are cradle Catholics, but Vatican II wiped them out. [0:44:52] Vatican II wiped out my whole family. [0:44:54] Ditto. [0:44:55] Ditto. [0:44:56] My whole family was wiped out. [0:44:58] It's like some Luke Skywalker story. Darth Vader just killed all the younglings. [0:45:03] And I was smuggled off to Tatooine. [0:45:06] So my parents basically raised me non-denominational Protestant. [0:45:13] And then I fell away from that about when I was 16. [0:45:19] My parents didn't go to church one Sunday, and I was like, you know, because I didn't like church then. [0:45:24] And quite honest, I didn't like church then for the same reason that I liked the Novus Ordo. [0:45:28] and I just never said anything like, well, if I don't say anything, [0:45:32] maybe they'll just forget that we used to go to church on Sundays. [0:45:34] And I never really asked them why, but they didn't, and I didn't. [0:45:39] So I was never an atheist, but I was pretty much agnostic, [0:45:44] or if I'm more honest with myself, I was just ignoring God because I wanted to sin, [0:45:48] but probably up until I graduated law school. [0:45:54] And it was at that juncture that I started looking deeper. [0:45:58] And what did it for you? What was the trigger? Was it just curiosity or was there something specific? [0:46:05] I achieved every earthly goal I had set out for myself. I was a lawyer at my dream firm. I wanted to be a lawyer since I was four. And that never really deviated. Now that's a long time to wait to achieve a goal. I was 27 when I got out. 26. [0:46:24] so after 22 years of work i achieved that i got my dream job with my professor my professor had a [0:46:32] firm he selected one student every of the whole class and he would give them an offer and i was [0:46:37] that year's uh recipient um i i got my dream car that year i was dating um what i thought was the [0:46:48] prettiest girl in the law school i'll still uh i'll still stand by that she's not my wife [0:46:52] I had everything the world could offer. And in the secular world in which I'd been, you know, brought up in, you know, my parents, even though they were very Protestant work ethic types. [0:47:04] So it was like a lot of like, do good in school, get a good job, like save your money, like classic baby boomer advice. [0:47:15] And nobody really told and same with my teachers. And nobody really told me this explicitly. [0:47:19] but I think implicitly I thought, [0:47:21] and I've talked to my other friends too, [0:47:23] who agreed that they kind of got this vibe as well, [0:47:26] was that our generation was just told that if you do that, [0:47:29] you'll become happy. [0:47:30] And I was three weeks under the job. [0:47:32] I loved my job. [0:47:33] I still like my job and do the same work. [0:47:35] But I sat back in my chair and I realized I may be happy, [0:47:42] but this is not what all of life can be. [0:47:45] And it was a pretty scary moment because at that juncture, [0:47:48] I knew I'm going to have to get out of like objective goal setting and like I'll graduate [0:47:55] this year and I'll do this and it's going to be softer it's going to be more philosophy theory I [0:48:01] knew I had to start there so I bought this giant book I think it's still up there on philosophy [0:48:07] and I went through every major philosophical theory but my boss the one who had hired me [0:48:14] a professor at my law school he was catholic and i told him i don't know how all the conversations [0:48:21] went but eventually we got to talking and i i said oh like you know um i'm not really finding [0:48:27] a philosophy i agree with yet but uh i'm almost at the enlightenment and that's where i'll find it [0:48:32] because again i was i was brought up in the american school system that like it which was [0:48:37] now that i look back on it it was so absurd the way american history is presented it's like [0:48:43] America, the greatest empire ever, the greatest nation on earth, just had to get two things right. [0:48:52] And then it could emerge. It was, we have to get rid of the Catholic Church, [0:48:57] because they're oppressing everybody and not letting them read. And we've got to throw off [0:49:02] monarchy. And then everything is enlightened. And then George Washington arises out of, you know, [0:49:08] up from the ground and saves everyone that was the way it was presented i took advanced classes [0:49:14] this wasn't like the dumbed down version but that was just the way the textbooks were written [0:49:17] so i thought the enlightenment was going to get me somewhere i was going to finally find the [0:49:22] meaning of life and my boss who's catholic was like the enlightenment ryan that's where everything [0:49:29] went wrong and a couple months later i finally get to these enlightenment thinkers and boy after [0:49:36] John Locke, it just goes downhill like really, really fast. I was like, these people are nuts. [0:49:41] Like they're actually certifiably insane. So I was very upset. I didn't know what to do. And [0:49:46] fortunately he was there. He told me, go back and read Aristotle and Aquinas. [0:49:51] And I don't know what happened after that, but I bought a catechism. I'd always wanted to be [0:49:56] Catholic. Kind of weird. It was a little seed planted. And I just said, Hey, Ryan, like you've [0:50:02] basically burned through this 800 page philosophy book like why don't you attend to that desire that [0:50:08] you'd always uh since again since i was four i always wanted to be catholic uh so i did i bought [0:50:15] the catechism i read the catechism the that professor slash boss of mine became my sponsor [0:50:21] um i didn't jump in right away i had a whole checklist of things i needed answered [0:50:25] but i sat down one-on-one with the deacon because again i didn't have to go through [0:50:29] CIA was a TLM program. So they're like, you just meet with us until all your questions are answered. [0:50:36] And then I convert. Wow. What about your parents? Are your parents Catholic now? Are they still [0:50:43] Protestant? My mom reverted. She was awesome. Cause you know, she just, she just started talking [0:50:52] to me. And I just, I mean, that's the thing about when I read the catechism, it was like the most [0:50:57] purest form of truth i'd ever i'd never seen that before i lived in a secular world where [0:51:03] like there was subjectivity both rightfully and wrongfully um truth was very difficult to come by [0:51:10] half my professors would lie to me so once you're hit with the truth it's really refreshing [0:51:14] and my mom my mom would have these questions and i just i would shoot back at her you know [0:51:22] because she was more of like the Protestant persuasion. [0:51:24] And then I think it's pretty easy to convert Protestants [0:51:28] because they're built on a lot of lies. [0:51:31] I mean, they are. [0:51:32] They're like the whole thing about the Catholic Church [0:51:34] didn't want people to read. [0:51:36] And as soon as you show them that that's a lie, [0:51:38] and then another thing they said is a lie, [0:51:40] and another thing they said is a lie, [0:51:42] then you start to realize like, wow, [0:51:44] if they're lying about all this, [0:51:46] I certainly can't trust them. [0:51:47] And who are they lying about? [0:51:48] They're lying about the Catholics. [0:51:50] Right. [0:51:50] uh that was kind of you know more or less my mom my dad is um pretty still pretty angry about the [0:51:57] abuse crisis i can't blame him so not yet for him but you know mostly um and then and then i found [0:52:07] out my one of my cousins actually goes to mass and is um according to my aunt completely chased [0:52:13] with his girlfriend so there's your luke and leia they were two of us who survived the massacre [0:52:19] in Vatican II. And then my mom came back from the dark side. So it's, yeah, it's good news. [0:52:26] Yeah, we'll definitely, we'll definitely be keeping your dad in our prayers. [0:52:30] We do have somebody in the chat, our buddy, The Winged Hussar. I'm like, I'm going to put you on [0:52:36] blast a little bit, but you know, he started, he started watching this show and you know, we do [0:52:41] these little meetups every now and again, you know, trying to rebuild social fabric, get out [0:52:47] from behind the screens and actually interact with people in real life. [0:52:50] By the way, uh, we are having a bonfire this Saturday. Uh, [0:52:54] so hit me up if you're in the area for that email at the backlash.net. [0:52:59] We'll send you over the address. Um, and actually this Sunday, [0:53:03] we've got our parish picnic as well, which is always, always a good time. [0:53:08] Um, and I'll, I'll, I'll get into it. I think as we get closer, [0:53:13] we also do something called Michael miss up here and it's, uh, [0:53:16] It's awesome. I mean, like we get little booths for all these different European countries. It's like a European heritage fair, basically. You know, we get the French priests making, you know, roast duck and, you know, handing it out to people. You've got the German tent with beer and pretzels. It's always a good time. [0:53:34] But anyway, the Winged Hussar, you know, he came out to one of our meetups and spent the weekend and I dragged him to mass with me. He's a Mormon. And he said here in the chat, for me, it was the music. Started listening to Gregorian chant and Harpa Dei and felt like I was listening to the real deal. [0:53:57] so yeah we've got to [0:54:00] we've got to get you [0:54:01] officially received in the church one of these [0:54:04] days man [0:54:04] I'll be your confirmation [0:54:07] I was actually somebody else that watches this show [0:54:10] I was their confirmation sponsor which was [0:54:12] cool and [0:54:13] you know I mean so on the one [0:54:16] hand yeah the conversions aren't [0:54:17] as much as we need but [0:54:20] at the same time like there are [0:54:22] a lot of conversions we've got this little smoking [0:54:24] club up here [0:54:25] in North Idaho. And I think we've had 10 people get baptized because of it. [0:54:31] Just in the last two years, you know, it's like you'll walk into the cigar lounge and, you know, [0:54:36] little do you know that like literally everybody there is Catholic. And so you start talking and [0:54:41] then we start bullying. And then, you know, we pull out the gun and say, you need to become, [0:54:48] No, kidding. But, but yeah, no, it is very clear that the traditional Latin mass communities, they're on to something there. And the Novus Ordo Church is definitely not on to something. I mean, one of these new developments that we've talked a little bit about, haven't gone super in depth yet. [0:55:08] Uh, but this is from just last week. We have a new head of the Catholic biblical association of America, Amy Jill Stein, or sorry, Amy Jill Levine, uh, a Jewish woman who is Jewish. [0:55:26] Jewish. Like she is not ethnically Jewish and then became Catholic. She is Jewish. She does [0:55:33] not believe in Jesus Christ. She is on the record explicitly stating that she wants to make [0:55:40] Catholicism less anti-Semitic or whatever. And it's just like, you know, almost like with the [0:55:49] Israeli PR disaster. It's like they are making these decisions that are having these negative [0:55:57] impacts, totally unforced errors. You know what I'm saying? The rate at which they are [0:56:05] accelerating the collapse is bizarre. Absolutely bizarre. I actually don't think it's bizarre [0:56:14] because it actually does also go into the demographic, [0:56:17] the demographics of the baby boomers, [0:56:20] who are the most Zionistic, [0:56:23] both in a voting bloc. [0:56:25] I mean, the entire baby boomer generation [0:56:29] is very Zionistic. [0:56:30] They're obsessed with World War II. [0:56:32] Like the only war that ever, [0:56:33] it's like the only war where there was like [0:56:35] clear big guys and bad guys to them. [0:56:38] And so they'll support the nation state of Israel. [0:56:41] and I think [0:56:43] I think Israel knows that [0:56:46] I think that's why we're seeing an uptick [0:56:48] in all the Middle Eastern conflict [0:56:50] they know they may [0:56:51] now I mean that assumes that our democracy [0:56:54] is semi-functional [0:56:56] I don't know how it would turn out [0:57:00] you know if a leftist got in [0:57:03] is even more anti-Israel [0:57:05] than like young Republicans are [0:57:07] but anyways [0:57:08] I think they know that [0:57:10] that they've only got, again, 10 more years of this. [0:57:16] If that, maybe five. [0:57:17] If that. [0:57:18] Well, this is something that I've brought up on the show a number of times. [0:57:22] This is an article from Mizrahi.org. [0:57:26] This is not exactly like an anti-Semitic source, [0:57:29] but this is, the article is called The Curse of the Eighth Decade. [0:57:34] And basically, it lays out the fact that the very first Jewish state founded by King David [0:57:39] although it had phenomenal achievements [0:57:43] it survived just for 80 years [0:57:46] in the 81st year due to internal conflicts [0:57:48] the kingdom disintegrated into the separate kingdoms of Judah and Israel [0:57:54] the second Jewish state, the Hasmonean kingdom [0:57:57] during the second temple era existed for 77 years [0:58:01] of course then Titus [0:58:04] our boy Titus came in and did what he had to do [0:58:08] Not one stone was left upon another. [0:58:11] And then, of course, comes now the establishment of the modern state, the Antichrist state of Israel, which was, what, now 77 years ago? [0:58:23] I mean, they've got like three years left. [0:58:25] The clock is ticking when it comes to the Israelis, the Jews, and that God-forsaken spit of land in the Middle East. [0:58:35] and they are certainly weaponizing this. [0:58:39] This is something we talked about on the episode we did like a week or two ago [0:58:43] with Mark Mitchell, the pollster. [0:58:46] We got into that. [0:58:47] They, the Israelis, have dumped something like $750 million into Hasbro, [0:58:56] which is essentially Israeli state propaganda, you know, flooding the market, [0:59:02] which is absolutely wild. Now, considering these issues of demographics, of the baby boomers, [0:59:12] of these people dying off, what are your thoughts about yesterday's show, if you will, in Florida? [0:59:21] What do you think about the results there with both Fishback and Dan Bilzerian? [0:59:28] yeah uh i i just barely pay attention to politics but i i think what happened was the more populist [0:59:37] anti-israel candidates both lost um is the debate that the baby boomers are going to give us maybe [0:59:44] 10 more years of this i think and you know a little gen x too um and we've seen that quite a [0:59:52] bit we've seen where you know the really popular fire brand type wasn't quite good like you know [0:59:59] some people wonder well you know donald trump was kind of aggressive with his language so why is [1:00:05] this transferring to younger people well donald trump had appeal to a variety of different groups [1:00:10] including old school baby boomers and gen xers who are more zionistic type and things like that [1:00:17] more old school Republican. [1:00:20] So I think that's just what it is. [1:00:21] It's just, it's not the right time yet. [1:00:24] I mean, I'll say this, [1:00:26] most people in my age group, [1:00:29] we all voted pretty heavily in 2024. [1:00:32] This is anecdotal, [1:00:34] but none of us are voting again. [1:00:36] Not after the betrayal of the Trump administration. [1:00:40] I mean, he just morphed into Jeb Bush, in my opinion. [1:00:44] So what I would imagine, [1:00:46] Now, on the flip side, the baby boomers are very pleased with him. [1:00:50] I mean, again, I'm speaking anecdotally, but none of my older relatives are upset. [1:00:57] So I think that just shows what happened in Florida. [1:01:01] The group that turned out were the ones who wouldn't want a fishback type, [1:01:06] and the ones who were demoralized at this point and would vote for him are demoralized. [1:01:12] They don't show up. [1:01:12] That's, that's my, you know, very uneducated take on it. [1:01:16] Yeah. [1:01:17] Just from what I'm seeing around the country and, you know, online with young people. [1:01:22] So. [1:01:23] Yeah. [1:01:23] Interesting. [1:01:24] Yeah. [1:01:24] We, uh, I did a little impromptu live stream in a call-in show yesterday. [1:01:28] I'm, I'm actually, uh, quite pleased, uh, with what happened yesterday. [1:01:32] Um, you know, Mark Mitchell pointed this out again, not to, you know, uh, the guy did not [1:01:36] hang the moon or anything like that, but, uh, the fishback voters are low propensity. [1:01:41] All of the young people are low propensity voters. And the fact that he got 175,000 of them to come out and vote, that is quite an accomplishment. He got 10 percent of the vote, came in third place. [1:01:56] but the real w here that you know the of course the israelis the zionists and all of those uh [1:02:03] you know christian zionists whatever people are they're out there they're dunking the football [1:02:06] they're um you know taking a victory lap like oh see the internet isn't real life blah blah blah [1:02:12] but what they're kind of failing uh to grasp i think uh with that whole situation is that [1:02:19] And finally, now we have got kind of a illicit outlet for these ideas, for the America first type of ideas, the Israel skeptical, mass deportations, you know, American identity. [1:02:34] This stuff is becoming normalized there. We are getting, you know, people on the ballot with these ideas. [1:02:43] And not only that, but like the 175,000 people that actually came out and voted for Fishback, they didn't vote for him on accident. [1:02:51] They didn't vote for him. [1:02:54] Oopsie. [1:02:54] You know, I just thought that, you know, he was better or whatever. [1:02:58] I mean, like they sued the guy. [1:03:00] They tried to get him off the ballot. [1:03:01] They smeared and slandered him endlessly for six or seven months. [1:03:05] And so every vote that came out and pulled the lever for Fishback, they knew what they were doing and they did it on purpose. And now we've got a team surrounding Fishback, his campaign managers, his door knockers, the volunteers that actually put some skin in the game. [1:03:25] Well, now all of a sudden they understand what it takes to actually run a campaign and they aren't going to stop with this one. They're going to keep going. These ideas, this infrastructure, the scaffolding that has been built around the Fishback campaign, I believe, is going to become a platform for more runs. [1:03:45] people coming up in 28, 30, 32, 34, 36. And within the next 10 years, that little 10% [1:03:52] is going to continue to grow. And, you know, this has been something I've been talking about [1:03:58] a lot, not to just go on and on here, but there is so much of politics that is like Mr. Miyagi, [1:04:05] wax on, wax off, you know, like you need to know who your neighbors are. You need to be able to [1:04:11] door knocking. And it's like, yeah, is, is door knocking going to like save the white race? [1:04:16] No, actually it's not, it's not going to, um, you know, uh, get rid of, um, Jewish supremacy [1:04:24] or whatever these people are talking about. Uh, it's not going to do that overnight, but you need [1:04:29] those things to be able to get there. Uh, and so you're, you know, a lot of people that, you know, [1:04:35] they just woke up to politics. They just woke up to, uh, these issues that our country is facing [1:04:40] and they want it fixed like that. [1:04:42] They've got TikTok brain. [1:04:43] They've got no attention span. [1:04:45] They don't have any ability to like commit [1:04:47] to a multi-year or decades long project. [1:04:51] And so it's going to be interesting [1:04:54] to see how this continues to play out. [1:04:55] But I'm actually very hopeful. [1:04:56] I think that the fishback thing was a harbinger [1:05:01] of good things to come. [1:05:03] And also when you kind of put it into context, [1:05:06] Like I think Casey Putsch got about 170,000 in Ohio. [1:05:13] Mark Fitzpatrick here in Idaho who ran for governor, he got about 120,000 votes. [1:05:19] So, I mean, even if you were to just say, okay, let's imagine that there's 150,000 groipers, for lack of a better word, in every single state, that's like 7.5 million groipers, again, for lack of a better word. [1:05:36] Um, so this is not slowing down. This is not slowing down at all. Um, and this is going to [1:05:44] accelerate and it's going to be kind of, kind of wild, just like, but this idea of the boomers [1:05:49] dying off and the parish is closing. The landscape is going to be completely new, uncharted territory. [1:05:56] Um, and it's going to get that way politically too. We're going to be seeing a lot more, uh, [1:06:02] radical, uh, politics, uh, Allah, the DSA, except on the right wing side, uh, which is [1:06:09] going to be interesting. Now, uh, before I let you go, there was a couple of other things that [1:06:16] I wanted to ask you about, uh, which is first of all, being a lawyer, uh, where do we stand with [1:06:23] the supposed excommunications of the SSPX bishops? I believe they have submitted an appeal. What does [1:06:31] that mean all right so what i have to first say is that even though i'm a lawyer nothing i say on [1:06:38] this podcast is legal advice unfortunately i have to say that for no it's okay um and i'm not a canon [1:06:46] lawyer however um i have looked i have a show on whether the x communications were even legal [1:06:53] per canon law no um just flat it's not even like the trek for a loophole it's just it was actually [1:07:00] the way canon law was written, if a person, and it is their own subjective hearing, believes [1:07:09] that there is a state of necessity, even if they are censured or punished, because of [1:07:17] that, the way the code is written, the punishment must be lessened. [1:07:22] So nobody was excommunicated, per canon law. [1:07:24] now assuming they were when an appeal goes forth the punishment is paused until the appeal [1:07:35] is reviewed and ruled on so at this juncture even if you wanted to believe that they were [1:07:41] excommunicated they again most certainly are not um this i mean look i just gotta say that [1:07:50] Whoever wrote the code of canon law in 1983, they were pretty sloppy. [1:07:57] And the SSPX exploited it wonderfully. [1:08:00] And I'm not the only one who has said this. [1:08:03] Other less traditional, more quote-unquote mainstream or normie canon lawyers have said the same thing. [1:08:11] They even said that the way that Fernandez wrote the document, particularly on the alleged excommunication of the laity, [1:08:20] He didn't do it right. It would be like filing a motion in the wrong court. [1:08:26] Just because you wanted it to go to the right court doesn't mean it went there. [1:08:31] I'm using an analogy here, but the point is he didn't even do it correctly. [1:08:35] So none of the laity were even excommunicated, even if you assume all of these things. [1:08:41] So honestly, it kind of shows you how modernist Rome behaves since the council. [1:08:48] They cannot really seem to do anything correctly, even when they really want to. [1:08:55] I hate to keep quoting Bishop Goldhattie, but it seems like the wrecking ball is the only thing they know how to operate at this juncture. [1:09:03] So, yeah, that's my take on that. [1:09:05] I did a show with Anthony Stein the day of it. [1:09:08] We live streamed the consecrations and we did the Ken Law. [1:09:11] And I also have it on my show as well. [1:09:13] A short version and a long version. [1:09:15] So, no, they're not excommunicated. [1:09:16] It's just it's plain as day. [1:09:18] Hmm. Nice. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's going to do it. Just one more, I guess, aside before I let you go is that, you know, speaking of this, you know, the church dying on the one hand with, you know, the Novus Ordo closing all of these parishes and whatnot. [1:09:42] Um, our church here in North Idaho is not only full, it is standing room only at basically every single mass. And we have like six on Sundays, you know, there's like a, a 6am, 7am and 830, uh, like, yeah, 830, 1030 noon. And then the sinner's mass at, you know, five or six o'clock at night. [1:10:09] so i mean dave that's a really good point see when i track these things i'm tracking them by [1:10:14] parish physical structure building because there's no you would need millions of dollars to actually [1:10:22] survey every single one to see how many do you offer and how fell down the best the sspx is [1:10:28] operating i mean first off the sspx shows tremendous growth wherever they are but they're [1:10:34] also operating with a lack of resources both priestly and financial so what you're seeing is [1:10:40] exactly what you described they may have what did i say 103 parishes or chapels here in america [1:10:48] but those 103 are punching well about their weight yeah whereas some of the novus ordo ones as we [1:10:54] showed have plans to abolish more than half in diocese after diocese meaning they do not have [1:11:02] six masses. They might have two that fill up halfway. Yeah. And the net deficit. So the [1:11:09] traditional move, I didn't really emphasize it well here because we were all about the doom and gloom, [1:11:14] but this actually isn't a black pill. It's very much a white pill because as soon as you flip [1:11:19] and look at the statistics for the traditionalists, it is fantastic. Like I said, better than the [1:11:25] apostles. Now we have technology. We have, you know, you and I are probably reaching more people [1:11:30] than St. Paul could have in a year. [1:11:33] Now the population is bigger today [1:11:36] and smaller back then. [1:11:37] But the point is the growth looks great. [1:11:40] It really does. [1:11:41] It's just people have to understand [1:11:43] we reset to zero. [1:11:45] From 33 AD to 1965, [1:11:48] you had 1,900 years of growth. [1:11:52] We're back to square one. [1:11:55] We're 60 years. [1:11:56] This would be like the year 90 AD. [1:11:58] That's how you have to think of it. [1:12:00] So then that's the problem is because you walk down the street and you see the Novus Ordo and it inhibits this beautiful building that was built in the 1800s, 1800 years into the project. [1:12:11] But when it comes to the traditional practice of the faith, you have to go back to a 90 AD mindset. [1:12:17] And those were the dark years. [1:12:18] Nobody wanted to be – like you want to be the Catholic in like 1150. [1:12:23] You don't want to be the one in 105 or 95 AD. [1:12:27] Those are the tough times. And that's where we're at. But we know how the story ended there. The growth is fantastic. We're going to win this one way or another. It's not even counting the possibility of a chastisement. If everything just plays out organically, tradition will rule the day quite soon. And I think sooner than people think, perhaps just not in our lifetime. [1:12:49] I guess that does remind me of a different question, and I should probably start asking this of more of my guests. Do you believe we're in the end times? [1:12:58] um you know it's funny i was very allergic to that type of stuff coming from a protestant [1:13:07] background yes you can get a lot of popularities of protestant preacher by like reading the signs [1:13:12] what is i'll give two answers to that there's a possibility yes and there's possibility no [1:13:19] the possibility now is very simple it's just that people have always thought they're here in end [1:13:23] times and uh they're always wrong what may make this slightly different is that we see a couple [1:13:32] of very radical things occurring when it comes to the middle east particularly the state of israel [1:13:38] people often forget that that was founded based on a guilt uh from the holocaust world ii which [1:13:47] was directly tied to the warning of our Lady of Fatima. [1:13:51] The wars and the errors of Russia and the Zionist movement that was spurned also out of Russia [1:13:59] were linked to Fatima, as well as the warning that if men didn't repent, it would be a worse [1:14:05] war than the one that was currently going on at the time of the war. [1:14:08] You know what that was. [1:14:10] It was predicted with immense accuracy. [1:14:13] That was World War II. [1:14:14] And to have the Jewish people move back into Israel after the 70 AD diaspora is something, it's utterly miraculous that that would occur. [1:14:30] That is so extreme in the history of events, particularly with that group and particularly given the 70 AD events. [1:14:43] It certainly has everything set up. [1:14:47] Now, whether there would be a chastisement, I mean, at the end of the day, all that matters is you're one day closer to the end of the world for you. [1:14:55] So make sure you as an everybody as an individual is ready for their end of the world, which is when they die. [1:15:00] But all I would say is there are some very concerning and disturbing things that go on with linking that with, now as a Catholic, linking that with Marian prophecy. [1:15:13] To be clear, Fatima didn't talk about the end of the world. [1:15:18] It just seems that that's very good. [1:15:20] And you read the Church Fathers and all the things that would be required of the system for the Antichrist. [1:15:29] yeah i mean it's there could it have been there at a different point in time in history [1:15:34] like with napoleon or someone i mean yeah sure um i i just think that the rehabitation of the [1:15:41] israel is pretty more pretty uh a historical that is why and that's something you know to keep an [1:15:51] eye on but that's all i'll say because other you know i like i said my protestant background makes [1:15:56] was so allergic to the end. Yeah. Oh no. I mean, I remember, you know, when I grew up, [1:16:02] cause I'm a convert too, uh, you know, and I remember growing up, going to these different, [1:16:05] like homeschool things, uh, cause I was homeschooled for a little bit and, you know, [1:16:08] everybody's reading the, uh, the, the, no, no, no. It's a damn it. What's it called? Left Behind [1:16:15] the Left Behind series. Um, I, yeah, I read that as a kid too. Um, and so, you know, I've been, [1:16:22] I have a statue of St. Vincent Ferrer out in my living room, kind of as a reminder that like, [1:16:29] hey, this isn't the end. You know, he was known for preaching fire and brimstone in the end of [1:16:34] the world. And well, it was the 1400s. So actually, no, it was not the end of the world. [1:16:40] So it's there as a reminder, but we are seeing things. And I don't know if I would say that the [1:16:45] that the founding of the state of Israel is miraculous. [1:16:50] It's something opposite. [1:16:52] It's something from hell. [1:16:54] Well, I didn't mean it as miraculous in the secular meaning. [1:16:59] Like it's very unusual and extraordinary. [1:17:04] Extraordinary would be the correct term. [1:17:06] Yes, yes, precisely. [1:17:08] It's straight out of the pit of hell, as far as I'm concerned. [1:17:12] Don't cancel Ryan because I said that. [1:17:14] But anyway, ADD brain, back to the growth angle of it. [1:17:20] We do have here in Post Falls a church project, a building project that we have just kicked off. [1:17:26] We are raising $60 million to build a brand new facility that can actually accommodate everybody in the church. [1:17:36] We've got a boys' school, a rectory, a library, the church itself, auxiliary buildings, soccer fields, a cemetery, the whole nine yards. [1:17:45] And this was all designed by Mr. McCreary, the guy that designed the new ballroom in Washington, D.C., which is really funny, actually, because, you know, they get this traditional Catholic guy to come in and design the new ballroom. [1:18:04] and as soon as he's done with the plans, [1:18:08] with the blueprints, [1:18:09] the Trump administration threw him out on his ass [1:18:11] and replaced him with a Jew [1:18:12] who is now, you know, operating [1:18:17] and, you know, building the project. [1:18:20] And I'm sure that there's absolutely no cutouts [1:18:22] and all the money is perfectly accounted for [1:18:24] and it's totally not a waste of taxpayer dollars [1:18:26] or anything like that. [1:18:28] But anyway, Ryan, tell people where they can find you, [1:18:32] where they can get your stuff. [1:18:33] We'll put it up on the screen as you do so. [1:18:36] Yeah, sure. [1:18:36] So on Twitter, yes, I'm a traditionalist, so I still call it Twitter. [1:18:41] I am Dale. [1:18:42] I'm Ryan. [1:18:44] On YouTube, I can be found at Preconciliar Radio. [1:18:51] Mostly do you talk about stats? [1:18:53] As you can see, all the arrows are pointing down. [1:18:56] Very catastrophic. [1:18:58] The global collapse closed. [1:19:00] so yeah you can find me there [1:19:03] and all of your stuff of course over at [1:19:07] integritymagazine.org [1:19:10] our friends Stephen Cox and American Reform [1:19:13] are running that outfit of course [1:19:15] well thank you very much for joining us today it's been a pleasure [1:19:18] this is the first time that we've ever even spoken [1:19:21] so sorry about the tech issues as we were getting off the ground [1:19:25] but this was great and we'll definitely have to have you back [1:19:28] well thank you so much for having me Dave [1:19:30] yeah well god bless [1:19:32] that was great I mean [1:19:34] besides the doom and gloom [1:19:36] you know but it's [1:19:38] we've got to be aware we've got to be laser [1:19:40] focused we need to be forward [1:19:42] thinking and preparing for [1:19:44] the future not just for tomorrow but for [1:19:46] 10 20 30 years down the road [1:19:48] it is very important that we are [1:19:50] you know thinking about where things are [1:19:52] headed and we can make all [1:19:54] of the proper adjustments [1:19:56] we did get a super chat [1:19:58] a huge super chat from our friend [1:20:00] The Winged Hussar [1:20:01] thank you for the big super chat [1:20:04] he sent $10 [1:20:05] dude I'm live streaming [1:20:09] don't call me [1:20:10] he sent $10 and said thanks for the kind mention [1:20:14] and thanks for helping direct me [1:20:15] to the traditional Latin mass [1:20:17] hey no problem [1:20:19] you're not special I do it to everybody [1:20:21] I do it to everybody I'm annoying I get that [1:20:23] so yeah [1:20:26] you know there was something else [1:20:27] and I didn't bring this up with Ryan [1:20:28] I didn't want him to get like involved with it or anything [1:20:31] but [1:20:32] E. Michael Jones [1:20:34] dude [1:20:35] I'm gonna [1:20:36] I'm gonna have a conniption [1:20:39] so anyway [1:20:40] he puts out this [1:20:43] magazine [1:20:44] you know volume 45 issue 7 [1:20:48] with you know [1:20:49] Bishop Filet being escorted to hell [1:20:53] by demons. [1:20:55] You know, and just as a brief reminder here, [1:20:58] the sin of schism is a sin against charity. [1:21:03] It's a sin against charity, [1:21:06] loving your neighbor because you love God, right? [1:21:10] And when you look at E. Michael Jones [1:21:12] and when you look at the content that he puts out, [1:21:17] is this charitable? [1:21:19] Of course, now my computer is freezing. [1:21:23] Oh, Lord. But anyway, in the art. Oh, there it is. OK. Is this charitable? Is this charity right here? Or is this some sort of weird demonic hatred that is surfacing? I would I would be in the latter of that. [1:21:42] But he publishes this article from a guy named Thaddeus Kaczynski, who, by the way, it is wonderful to argue with him on Twitter because you can make him have an absolute conniption fit like really, really easily. [1:21:55] He's a lol cow. But in his article, there is no such thing as traditional Catholicism. [1:22:01] Of course, it's cut. It's cut out from the web version. As you can see, this is just an excerpt. But if you actually spend the time slogging through the real article in the magazine, they actually complain and say that traditional Catholics are having too many kids. [1:22:22] Think about that. That traditional Catholics need to start engaging in NFP. [1:22:28] so [1:22:31] just wanted to point that out there [1:22:34] yeah, E. Michael Jones is [1:22:36] on another level [1:22:40] well anyway, since my computer is frozen [1:22:42] and I can't switch scenes [1:22:44] we're going to go ahead and thank all of our wonderful [1:22:46] sponsors for making this show possible [1:22:47] of course we've got [1:22:50] ODGG Supply, the Pacific Northwest [1:22:52] premier dealer of [1:22:53] military surplus [1:22:56] equipment, they've got everything you need [1:22:58] whether you're going blankie mode or bug out mode, they've got all kinds of stuff, whether [1:23:04] you're, you need like a tent or a tarp, a sleeping bag or a blanket. They've got all kinds of gun [1:23:11] accessories, gun bags, uh, totes, all of it. And like I, like I say, uh, my main, my main bag, [1:23:20] my main, uh, everyday carry bag is one of these, uh, assault packs. You know, you've got plenty [1:23:26] of room in here for everything that, uh, you need some extra magazines, you know, you've got, uh, [1:23:36] room for your gun and there's enough room to fit a missile, all kinds of pipes, tobacco, [1:23:45] whatever. So, uh, definitely get yourself a, uh, bug out bag. If you don't already have one, [1:23:53] You can do that at odggsupply.com, and you can use promo code BACKLASH14. [1:23:59] You'll get 14% off your order. [1:24:01] There it is, the USMC Philby FDE Assault Pack. [1:24:04] This is the guy. [1:24:06] Definitely, definitely a very useful bag. [1:24:11] And we've got to give a shout-out to Above Time Coffee Roasters, [1:24:14] makers and purveyors of fine hand-roasted pro-white coffee from Pennsylvania. [1:24:19] they source the most bestest coffee beans ever. [1:24:25] Then they hand roast them to order. [1:24:28] Each bag gets stamped with the day that it was roasted. [1:24:31] So you can actually see how fresh the coffee is. [1:24:34] It's not sitting in a warehouse for six months. [1:24:37] It's not sitting on the shelves getting mold. [1:24:40] This stuff is getting fired up and roasted as you order it. [1:24:45] So definitely check them out at abovetimecoffee.com. Use promo code BACKLASH10. You'll get 10% off your order, and you will never be able to drink a crappy cup of coffee ever again. This will raise the standards and refine your tastes. [1:25:03] and also we've got to give a shout out to Antelope Hill Publishing. [1:25:07] They're fighting to keep history alive amidst a regime of anti-white censorship [1:25:11] and they're equipping a new generation of dissidents with information [1:25:15] to fight the anti-white regime. [1:25:18] Their varied catalog includes the newly updated and expanded third edition [1:25:22] of Dr. Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique, [1:25:24] the essential modern text on the Jewish question. [1:25:29] Dr. Ricardo Duchesne's magnum opus, Greatness and Ruin, [1:25:32] the definitive scholarly examination of European exceptionalism, [1:25:36] as well as works by Kerry Bolton, Paul Kersey, and Josh Neal. [1:25:39] Antelope Hill recently brought David Irving's iconic Nuremberg, The Last Battle, back into print, [1:25:44] as well as all kinds of other historical works from eras such as fascist Italy, [1:25:50] national socialist Germany, and civil war Spain, all previously unavailable in English. [1:25:54] There are also plenty of books on contemporary issues such as transgenderism, [1:25:58] the opioid crisis, and Christian nationalism, [1:25:59] as well as history books, novels, and children's books. [1:26:03] So whatever your interest is, [1:26:05] you're bound to find books that you like at Antelope Hill, [1:26:07] all professionally published with sleek modern cover art. [1:26:10] Help us and help our people by checking out companies [1:26:12] that share our values and fight for our cause. [1:26:16] Visit antelopehillpublishing.com [1:26:17] and use promo code BACKLASH10 [1:26:19] to get 10% off your order. [1:26:22] And by the way, [1:26:24] there is a book that is not sold by Antelope Hill, [1:26:27] and I can't make it full screen to show you because my computer has frozen. [1:26:32] But this book is called Know Thy Enemy, Answering the Jewish Question by Father James Maudsley. [1:26:41] This book literally just came out. [1:26:44] It is hot off of the press, and we are going to be diving into this. [1:26:49] Father Maudsley has agreed to come back on the show, [1:26:52] so we are looking very much forward to him coming on. [1:26:57] this is going to be a must-own book. [1:27:01] And it's not just one book. [1:27:03] It's a series of three, three books. [1:27:06] The first one is, of course, Know Thy Enemy. [1:27:10] The second book is called Their Murderous Lies. [1:27:13] And the third book is called Know How to Fight. [1:27:18] And all three of these books are being published as we speak. [1:27:21] They will come out in order. [1:27:23] And we are certainly going to quiz Father about this because this is one of the defining, if not the defining fight of our time, the fight between Christianity and the bastardized version of Judeo-Christianity. [1:27:43] So we are looking very much forward to father coming back on the show. [1:27:50] And we've also got to shout out North Idaho Tallow Company. [1:27:54] These guys rock. [1:27:56] They make soap and skincare products with natural things. [1:28:01] Okay. [1:28:02] Beef tallow, lard, jojoba oil, olive oil, all of the above. [1:28:07] no harsh chemicals, no fake phony fragrances that will mess with your endocrine system. [1:28:13] If you're worried at all about your testosterone levels being disrupted or [1:28:17] estrogen for the wife that's trying to conceive, you know, you might want to think about what you [1:28:23] are putting on your skin. Your skin is the largest organ in the body. You get in the shower, [1:28:28] it gets hot, your pores open up, and then you start slathering all kinds of petroleum byproduct [1:28:33] and detergent all over your body, [1:28:35] that gets absorbed, [1:28:36] it's not good for you. [1:28:38] It will make you less healthy [1:28:40] than if you used Idaho Tello. [1:28:43] So please visit them. [1:28:46] You can get a automated shipment, [1:28:49] a three bar soap of the month club subscription. [1:28:52] And you will never have to think about soap ever again. [1:28:56] It'll just show up at your door [1:28:58] and you will not be able to go back. [1:29:00] I've tried. [1:29:01] I've tried. [1:29:02] I can't. [1:29:03] It's, uh, it's so, and, and I wouldn't want to either on my elbow. I used to have, uh, [1:29:10] eczema. It was like gator scales all over my elbow. This stuff cleared it right up. [1:29:16] So anyway, uh, also atlasbullion.com slash backlash. They have gold and silver. And if [1:29:24] you don't want to save in a U S dollar that is being actively devalued, then you might want to [1:29:31] consider picking up some precious metals. [1:29:33] They've got silver subscriptions as low as $55 a month. [1:29:36] Gold subscriptions as low as $200 a month. [1:29:39] Take the stress out of buying metals by signing up for a subscription. [1:29:43] And that will do it for us here at The Backlash this evening. [1:29:50] We've got some other wonderful episodes coming up for you in the near future [1:29:54] and a lot of IRL stuff going on as well. [1:29:57] Like I said, this Saturday, we've got the bonfire going on Saturday evening. [1:30:04] If you're in the area, I would love to meet you. [1:30:07] Love to see you come by, get you integrated in the friend group. [1:30:12] And then what else? [1:30:15] Sunday, we've got our parish picnic. [1:30:16] It's going to be delightful. [1:30:19] Even if you go to the Novus Ordo, why don't you swing by? [1:30:23] We'd love to see you. [1:30:24] Uh, also, uh, the big Catholic land movement conference, uh, is coming up. That will be on August 28th. Yeah, right there it is. The national conference, August 28th through 30th in Greensburg, Indiana. Uh, so I will actually be at that. [1:30:44] I will be at the Catholic Land Movement National Conference next weekend. [1:30:51] And if you happen to be in the area, drop me a line. [1:30:56] We can get together. [1:30:59] But that also might mean, you know, some housekeeping over here. [1:31:04] I might not have a show for you on the following Monday. [1:31:09] Let's see. Oops, there's my whole calendar. [1:31:12] Go ahead, everybody. Take a look. [1:31:14] Um, but yeah, I might, we might not have shows on the 31st or the 2nd of September. [1:31:25] Um, I will probably be traveling. [1:31:28] Actually, my parents, my parents are moving finally to North Idaho. [1:31:32] We're getting them out of the cesspit of Pennsylvania. [1:31:36] Uh, so anyway, keep an eye out for all that. [1:31:39] We've all, of course, got a bunch of other events that are coming up in September. [1:31:42] and we will let you know all about them as they come. [1:31:47] So thank you for joining us today. [1:31:49] It's been great. [1:31:51] In the meantime, I'm going to have to call up Rumble headquarters [1:31:54] and see what the heck is going on [1:31:55] because these technical difficulties suck. [1:31:59] Anyway, God bless. [1:32:01] Have a good night. [1:32:12] you