Episode 20 – Idiocracy is Happening for Real — Live w/Jolly Heretic

Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:02:43 ] This is The Backlash. This is our Monday show where we interview a cast of characters that we find interesting. It's good to see you, fellas. Hi, Dave. Vincent James [ 00:02:52 ] Hey, what's going on? You're not Dave. I'm Dave. Well, you know, hey, everyone. Hello, everyone. Hello, everyone. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:02:59 ] Today we have Edward Dutton. If you guys don't know him, he's been around for a while. He's taught us some things back in the 2016 to now era. He's an evolutionary psychologist, has an excellent, hilarious book. YouTube channel, hello Mr. Edward Dutton [ 00:03:14 ] Dudden, it's good to see you, hello, hello! I'm very sorry to have got you all up so terribly early, oh no! We were all away reindeer time, no, no, it's okay, it's uh, it's over in over in the time of uh, California or whatever. It's yeah, it's very early in the morning, so well done. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:03:33 ] We are having some problems with Twitter; I don't know if this is everybody is everybody having a problem with Twitter, but we're not able to stream on Twitter right now. So I don't know what you're pointing at, but I'm not pointing anything. Reilly [ 00:03:43 ] I'm hovering over the next scene transition. Oh, well, I mean, I can I can... Vincent James [ 00:03:48 ] It's fine on my phone; I don't know what's going on on the laptop. Reilly [ 00:03:52 ] People are noticing too much. That is. Maybe that's I think that the Qatari money has finally broken the Twitter algorithm and they're trying to crack down on Qatari influence in American politics. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:04:04 ] Wow, what a week. So much noticing. Almost too much. Yes. Edward Dutton [ 00:04:10 ] I don't see how Twitter could work on a phone but not a laptop. That doesn't make any sense. I know, it's weird. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:04:15 ] Yeah, we're having similar issues here. Edward Dutton [ 00:04:18 ] All right, I'll just check. But yeah, it's a bit of a bugger on the old Twitter because, of course, that's why we're late. Because I said to you to convey me the studio link on Twitter DMs and then, yeah, it's not working on my phone. No. Oh, it is. Oh, yeah, that is weird, then, isn't it? Vincent James [ 00:04:36 ] Yeah. Edward Dutton [ 00:04:37 ] There you go. So on the phone, it works, but on the laptop, it's peculiar. I don't have any tech bros out there. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:04:43 ] It's because there's too much noticing. That must be it. Reilly [ 00:04:46 ] I think that's what it is. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:04:47 ] Who noticed this week? It was Ian. Elon got the call to shut it down. He got the call. Ian Carroll, Candace Owens. Who else? Vincent James [ 00:04:54 ] Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate. I don't think we need an excuse. White people don't need an excuse to be late anymore. We're just late. Deal with it. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:05:03 ] Everyone in the live chat is like, this is the woman's fault. I was like, not this time. Not this time. Edward Dutton [ 00:05:11 ] It's not working really on my phone either. So no bollocks to Twitter today, Captain. Bollocks. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:05:18 ] That's okay. I wanted to talk a little bit about your book, At Our Wits' End. I think it's an interesting topic. You discuss how we're becoming dumber. So I heard you say that richer people had 50% increased surviving children than poor classes. The genetic component of wealth is 40%, which implies that we're selecting. Edward Dutton [ 00:05:39 ] That was quite a lot. I mean, I think we discussed At Our Wits' End the last time you interviewed me, which was about 2021. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:05:48 ] Yes, I did want to talk a little bit about intelligence. Edward Dutton [ 00:05:52 ] Yeah, so I've developed a lot, developed my thinking. I'm trying to find the thing on YouTube so I can see the live chat. I don't know why I can't find it. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:06:02 ] What has changed since 2021? Edward Dutton [ 00:06:04 ] Well, so first of all, the research that I did back then. I don't know why I can't now find it on YouTube. It's just blonde. Vincent James [ 00:06:11 ] You can just type in blonde belly beast. That's what I do. Does it come out? Edward Dutton [ 00:06:16 ] Yeah. In the belly of the beast. No, so what I showed in that book was that there is a weak negative relationship of about minus 0 . 2 between intelligence, between fertilities and intelligence. So basically we're getting dumber. And what I, I can't find it. And what I showed was that the, That was for genetic reasons. So it was happening on the components of intelligence, which are the most G-loaded, which are the most associated with G and which are the most genetically mediated. So that some aspects of intelligence are caused by environment, highly environmental, and some aspects are highly genetic. And we're becoming stupider and it's happening on the genetic components of intelligence. And indeed, it has been shown. The day when I published the book, that was 2018. We only had data for Iceland. Now we have data for the UK. Well, there are alleles what's called polygenic scores that are indirectly associated with intelligence that are associated with um education attainment and very high education attainment and these are decreasing in prevalence among the native population i. e among the white population so we are becoming less intelligent for genetic reasons. Now since then we've got polygenic scores for other countries, for Britain, for example, and it's showing exactly the same thing. And not only that, but intelligence is genetically associated with mental health and physical health. So we are, because when things are selected for in prehistory, they become pleiotropically related. They become bunched together. So we're selecting against mental health, against physical health, and against intelligence. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:07:57 ] So is it true that there's a correlation between between wokeness and mental health issues? Edward Dutton [ 00:08:02 ] Well, yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that. I've just had a paper forcibly withdrawn because it proved that. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:08:08 ] Can you talk a little bit about that, please? Edward Dutton [ 00:08:11 ] Yeah, so we submitted a paper to the Scandinavian Journal of Psychology in which we verified a previous woke scale which someone had drawn up. And we showed that woke scale work, that it was measurement in variance, that it wasn't just due to cultural issues or whatever, that there really is a true relationship between believing in wokeness on the extent you believe in it and poor mental health. And it was quite a strong relationship as well. It was something like 0. 4 or 0. 5. So being woke is basically quite strongly associated with being. Mentally ill um and being woke is also associated with all kinds of this is one of the reasons I didn't like so it got through peer review, is accepted. I was even asked by the peer reviewers to do more detail on why this was happening, to speculate it was accepted, and then it upset woke people, obviously. It's going to upset them because they're mentally ill and paranoid, and they're narcissists. Vincent James [ 00:09:08 ] That's it. That's interesting because like I know that there's a bunch of things that like religiosity-really? Like conservatives are more likely to be religious. Right. They're more likely to have families. They're more likely to get married. I don't think that's true anymore, though. According to research, that is true. Edward Dutton [ 00:09:26 ] I mean, you can you can look at the let me see if I can get a list of them here. But you, on every variable you can think of, religiosity has all of the components of an adaptation. It is associated with mental health genetically. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Physical health. It's associated with mental stability. It's associated with fertility. It's the part of the brain called the anterior frontal cortex. If that's stimulated with magnets, you become both more religious and more ethnocentric. So it's associated with that. It's associated with a pro-social kind of personality, which would have been selected for in prehistory. And it's also very strongly associated with conservatism. And then if you look at what that's associated with, it's associated with all kinds of markers of genetic health. So it's, hang on, let me get the list here. It's associated with a symmetrical face. So, obviously if you have a symmetrical face, if you're good-looking, then you're able to maintain a symmetrical phenotype in the face of disease or whatever. You have more bioenergetic resources left over to fight off the disease. You're healthier. Conservatism is associated among men with physical strength. It's associated with height. It's associated with being rated as good-looking. Come on, where is it? Submit. Search. It's associated with all of these different measures associated with fertility, as I said. Vincent James [ 00:11:06 ] Yeah, I saw this Pew Research study while you were looking for that, and it was talking about religiosity and happiness, right? And it said, you know, in all aspects, people that are more religious tend to be happier. People that are conservative tend to be happier. Correlated it to the fact that you know they're religious; they're going to church, um; they're finding, you know, they're filling the hole that they have in their soul with God and also they have children so they feel more fulfilled in their life, yeah. Edward Dutton [ 00:11:35 ] In general, having children makes you more conservative, um, and uh, and yes, they do; they are; they are what you have found here, so... Um, basically, being woke, being left-wing is associated with being objectively unpleasant and selfish, with being arrogant, with being so... They give less to charity, things like that, with being arrogant and entitled, i. e. narcissism. So if you are highly neurotic and mentally unstable, then you have all these negative feelings about yourself. Then you will deal with this by creating a false self where you tell yourself you are morally superior and you will want narcissistic supply. And so therefore you will be moved towards that which gives you narcissistic supply. And in left-wing society, that is being über social conformist, über woke. They are treacherous, i.e. They are literally more likely to identify with outsiders over the in-group, to identify with a foreign group over their own group. They are more likely to commit crime. They are more mentally unstable. They have weaker congenital health. They are physically weaker. The men are shorter. They are objectively uglier. They have objectively unattractive bodies. They are higher in markers of utility such as being left-handed. They are high in feelings of hate for people. They are high in authoritarianism, and they are more dishonest. Wait, this is incredible. Hold on, is being a lefty a mute? I have citations for this. It's in my new book. I love this guy. This is great. This is great. My new book, Woke Eugenics, How Social Justice is a Mask for Social Darwinism. SPEAKER_5 [ 00:13:10 ] Oh, wow. Vincent James [ 00:13:10 ] Wait, wait, wait. Edward Dutton [ 00:13:11 ] Do that again. Hold that up again. Vincent James [ 00:13:12 ] Where could they find that book at, by the way? Can they find that on Amazon? Edward Dutton [ 00:13:15 ] You can get it on Amazon or you can get it from the publisher, which is Imperium Press. What I show in that, and this is how I've moved on from the last time I talked to Rebecca. So what we show is, I did another book, it's called The Past is a Future Country, The Coming Conservative Demographic Revolution. And what we show there, based on a large representative American data set, is if you control for intelligence, so you just look at the top quartile of intelligence, then we're all becoming stupider, but the left are becoming stupider faster. We call it the Rayner effect after Britain's CHAV minister, Angela Rayner, who's what you in America would call a hick or a redneck or whatever. Watch it. Watch it. No, kidding. And so we call them CHAVs in England. She had a child at 16. You know, she's a slapper. And so they're both becoming stupider. But if you control for intelligence, the big predictor of fertility is conservatism and religiosity. And those traits are about up to 60%, and even in some measures, 70% genetic. Reilly [ 00:14:29 ] Wow. Edward Dutton [ 00:14:30 ] So, what we're doing is we're selecting for religiosity and for conservatism among the elite. And what that would augur, and it's the elite that leads things, this idea that, oh, you get these revolutions from below. That's rubbish. It's what happens in the elite that matters. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:14:46 ] Ah, Cameron says that all the time. Yep. Edward Dutton [ 00:14:48 ] And the elite will change as the congenitally left-wing white elite die off. And you'll get an elite that is what I call the foreign right, i. e., their left wing. But that's because if you're a foreigner in the society or you're an ethnic foreigner, it's in your interest to have a left-wing, non-nationalistic government. And you'll get this percolation upwards into positions of power, sort of Nick Fuentes types. Um, and secondly, of course, a lot of these kids, people born in Generation Zed, people are 20 years younger than me; I mean when I was at school, there were still teachers born in the 20s, it was still the fag end of the you know, of the conservative society, whereas now that's all changed; you've got these teachers with blue hair who cut themselves because they're sad, and of course, of course, of course, you're going to rebel against that. SPEAKER_5 [ 00:15:41 ] Right. Edward Dutton [ 00:15:41 ] And so there's a degree to which the rebellious type, who in my generation would rebel against Christianity and traditional ideas, will rebel against that. So then you're seeing in the data a polarization whereby people who are 20 are normally predictably more left-wing than people that are 40. We get more conservative with age, A, because we have children, but also because conservatism is associated with conscientiousness, agreeableness and mental stability. And those things go up with age. So they're meant to be predictably more left-wing. Now, they are the most left-wing generation ever, obviously, but they're not as left-wing as they should be. And when you look into the data, if you look, as they say in America, under the hood, which for British viewers means bonnet, then you notice that there's this polarization effect that's happening among them, which is consistent with this data. So that was the next innovation post at our wit's end. And then the next thing that we realised, myself and my colleague, J. R. Rayner-Hills, was the concept of woke eugenics, i. e. if we carry on like this forever, becoming less and less and less, literally selecting, we're selecting for genetic mental poor health, genetic physical poor health and stupidity. So if we carry on like that forever, then when the next Graham Hancock-type event happens, when the next meteorite hits, then we're all just so deracinated that we die. The species dies because we're so unhealthy. So something has to happen to stop that happening. And remember, evolution is about surviving. It's about the species surviving and it's about the subgroup, the race or the ethnic group surviving. Something has to hit in so that we stop getting unhealthy and stop so that we just all die. And what that is, is wokeness. Wokeness has been sent by Darwin or sent by God, depending on your perspective, to bring about a eugenics, to stop the dysgenics and bring about eugenics. How does it do that? Well, you get to a point eventually you have this buildup of mutation in the population. Since the industrial revolution, we've become less and less healthy. And obviously, what we were selected for in the industrial revolution-putting aside intelligence because that's a bit complicated because that's associated with social conformity-is to be basically mentally healthy, physically healthy, and those things are associated with being group-oriented and being conservative and being religious. Because under harsh conditions, you have group selection, and the group that is more positive and negatively ethnocentric tends to survive. So you select for that. And then people that can get on with other people are more likely to survive. So you're pro-social; you select for that. And those things are associated with mental and physical health. And so they all become player-typically related and selected for together in the context where the child mortality rate was 50%. Now, that child mortality rate has collapsed down now to 1%. and what that means of course is a massive buildup of mutation and what you would expect was to for that to deviate, for that to be in the direction of against what we were selecting for, which is conservatism and religiosity, mental health, physical health. And so it's not surprising that, yes, you do get people that are higher mutational load that are right wing, but the tendency is for them to be left wing. The tendency is for such people to be left wing, to be atheistic, to be all of those kinds of things. Now, eventually they would build up in the population until they reached a tipping point. And in a lot of psychological studies, that tipping point is about 20%. And they would start influencing the society to be more individually oriented. We are pack animals, but we have to ascend to the top of our hierarchy in prehistory to pass on our genes. So you have two sets of moral foundations. You have the group-oriented moral foundations of obedience to authority, in-group loyalty, and sanctity versus disgust, which keeps out that which is bad for the group. And then you have the individually oriented conditions of equality and harm avoidance. And conservatives are about the same in all five moral foundations. They value all of them. Liberals only value equality and harm avoidance. And what they tend to be is mentally unstable people who therefore fear a fair fight. And so they covertly play for status like girls do by virtue signaling, by signaling equality and harm avoidance. Basically, we've tipped over from being a broadly conservative society that is concerned with these conservative binding moral foundations to being a liberal one concerned with the individually oriented ones. And then you get runaway individualism, runaway concern with equality, runaway concern with harm avoidance. And what this does, it gets to a point where you start signaling, 'I won't have children for the sake of the environment.' I won't have children because I'm white and it's evil to be white. I won’t have children because I’m a man, toxic masculinity and all that stuff. And so this is what wokeness does. Wokeness takes over the culture and rather than put people on an adaptive roadmap of life, it puts people on a maladaptive roadmap of life. It directs them towards their genetic death. Now, once that happens, you have a selection event. Because only the people that are genetically resistant to this hell will pass on their genes. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:21:17 ] What do you think about pronatalist, secular, high-IQ white individuals using IVF in kind of a fatherless setting, à la Elon Musk, to increase the birth rate amongst people who purportedly have a low mutational load, although Elon Musk is clearly autistic. Exactly. Edward Dutton [ 00:21:36 ] Should you not just let woke eugenics take its course, which is that everybody who is anything other than highly genetically fit gets pulled into the death cult of wokeness, and thus, boom, we go back to having a highly healthy, religious, conservative population once again. That's so interesting. The other thing people ask about is the question of the low-IQ breeding. Those people tend to miscegenate. Vincent James [ 00:22:08 ] I was just going to ask because there's a bunch of questions that come to mind when you're talking about this. It's very interesting you talk about how it's sort of just going to play itself out and we're going to return because we're essentially going to genetically modify ourselves to reject this wokeness and we're going to return. to like a conservative society. This is something that, are you familiar with Malcolm Collins? Edward Dutton [ 00:22:32 ] Yes, I know Malcolm very well. I was with him the other week. Vincent James [ 00:22:35 ] He talked about this on my show. We interviewed him on my show, and he talked about this exact thing. And it's interesting you put it in this perspective. It makes me understand it a lot more, that wokeness is sort of like a genetic mutation, almost like you said, I think you called lefties genetically mutated. I heard you left-handed people. Edward Dutton [ 00:22:55 ] Malcolm wrote a dust jacket quote for this book. Vincent James [ 00:22:59 ] Did he really? Okay, yeah, we're going to have to have him on the show. Yeah, he's a super smart guy. Reilly [ 00:23:03 ] You can get it on Amazon. As he was talking, I was on Amazon buying his book. So you can get it on Amazon. You don't have to worry about going. I mean, you could also go directly to Imperium Press, I'm sure, and they would get a small percentage. Vincent James [ 00:23:18 ] So I have a couple of questions. So the thing about white people becoming dumber, now what countries is this for that you looked at? Edward Dutton [ 00:23:27 ] It's in most of the countries where we have data, it seems to be. There are some exceptions in Scandinavia. I think that the relationship is stronger among women than men. So among women, it's about minus point two. Among men, about minus point one. Among African-American women, it's about minus point three. It's very strong. Vincent James [ 00:23:51 ] Interesting. Edward Dutton [ 00:23:52 ] The intelligent African-American women are very strongly likely to not have children. And then in other countries, there are things which balance it out. I don't know. For example, in some Scandinavian countries, they seem to be very prone to becoming alcoholics, the men. And once they do that, they're just disgusting to women and don't have children. Vincent James [ 00:24:12 ] Right. Edward Dutton [ 00:24:13 ] And so it's like a border is crossed. Vincent James [ 00:24:15 ] Because it's weird, because if you're saying the woke people, they're getting dumber, quicker, that would typically mean the dumber people have more kids. Right. But that's not what's happening. So it's very interesting. He was talking, go ahead. Edward Dutton [ 00:24:29 ] Some people are having more kids. Some people are in general having more kids. There's certain national cultural exceptions to this. But it's somewhere like the UK, for example, there's this very interesting book called The Welfare Trait by Adam Perkins. And he showed if you divide the country into those where both parents are working, IQ of 100. Those where one parent is on welfare, IQ, let's say, 90. Those where both parents are on welfare, And those where both parents are on welfare and they have to get police and social worker interventions and things like this. So the criminal underclass, the lumpenproletariat, let's say IQ 80. It's only that group that has above replacement fertility. Vincent James [ 00:25:13 ] Right. Edward Dutton [ 00:25:14 ] And remember, the genetic component of IQ is something like 80 percent. Right. Vincent James [ 00:25:19 ] Yeah, that makes sense. Edward Dutton [ 00:25:20 ] Shows you what's happening with this work eugenics. Not only do you have this this idea of of sucking you into a death cult, but you also create a situation where you also almost like at an environmental level, make the people that are conservative and right-wing even more right-wing. Because you bring in policies to discriminate against them, such as they've just put in England, where there's two-tier policing in favor of ethnic minorities. Or you create a system of crime where you have authoritarian structures against basically heresy, but you don't bother solving crime. So people live in a chaotic society. They become more instinctive, and instinct tends to elevate ethnocentrism and being right-wing. I mean, even things like fat acceptance. What are you doing with fat acceptance? You're making being fat acceptable so that people stay fat and die young and don't pass on their genes. So the healthy people thrive and the fat people die off. Vincent James [ 00:26:21 ] Because like without this wokeness, people were going this direction anyway. It's basically what he's saying. And so what he's saying is that. Edward Dutton [ 00:26:28 ] Right. Vincent James [ 00:26:29 ] And so now what he's saying is that this this wokeness is essentially like like, you know, of almost like a vaccine, I guess, like like a virus that sort of like corrects society, corrects the path of society. in a quicker way, sort of like make sure that we rewind the tape quicker so that we get back to a healthier direction. It's very interesting. Edward Dutton [ 00:26:52 ] When you get a lot of people on the right that are against abortion, they have various religious reasons for this. But you've got to ask yourself, who gets abortions? Black women. It's women with low IQ and women that have psychopathic. Traits true dark triad traits true and those people by the way are more likely to be left wing yeah and so it seems to me you can be all sentimental about it and say oh every life is special and unique and the gift from god how do i get out of this or you can be logical about it and say no some babies are not special and created by god some babies are genetically woke And we don't want them. No, dear God, no. Vincent James [ 00:27:37 ] We're Catholic. Hold on a minute, it's Lent. Reilly [ 00:27:40 ] Dear Lord, we apologize on behalf of Dutton. Forgive us. It's okay, we're fine. Edward Dutton [ 00:27:46 ] Our sometimes creates evil people to tempt the believer. Reilly [ 00:27:51 ] Here's my question, because you're describing this. I mean, I've seen it happen in real life. And I want to maybe like as we get a little bit down the road here, I don't know how you are with, I guess, physiognomy. Like, can you look at someone? Edward Dutton [ 00:28:02 ] I did a book on that actually called How to Judge People by What They Look Like. Reilly [ 00:28:05 ] So we're going to do that. We're going to do that in a bit. I've got some pictures lined up. We're going to show you some pictures of some interesting people. And you're going to tell us about them based on knowing nothing about them. But my question is, so like you've got this increasing trend with woke. when the woke people get in, they, like you said, impose these kind of draconian heresy laws. And so that is getting people to turn back. So there's this kind of like inflection point, it seems like, where are they going to go so far down the woke road that they're actually going to like kill all of the smart right-wing people? Or is that going to self-correct? Is there like a danger there? Edward Dutton [ 00:28:50 ] You look at the extent to which they're pushing a situation where they're basically saying, and they have been for a long time, if you're not one of us and you don't agree with our stuff, then you're evil and we hate you. Yes. And this has brought about a situation, I think, where people that some years ago would have been fearful, even perhaps myself, 10 years ago or something. Would have been much more careful about saying these kinds of things in public, are now aware that there's a whole ecosystem, a whole subculture that's developed, that's our subculture, and that things are kind of in some way even seeming to be moving our way, and that we're gradually breaking away. I look at this in the past as a future country. I mean, this is what happens in the winter of civilization. Large polities break up. Rome didn't completely collapse. Rome retreated into Byzantium and was surrounded by third world chaos. And what I suspect will happen now is that gradually, and in fits and starts, intelligent, right-wing, conservative, healthy people will band together in a way that was more difficult 10 or 20 years ago. They can find themselves using the internet. We're having this conversation across the internet. I've met, as it were, blonde through the internet or whatever. Who I was introduced to by somebody else called Robin Riley via the internet and so on. And so they can sort of come together into separate kind of communities, both online and offline, and find each other more easily. And in fact, I'm noticing that even with people that are Generation Z, 20 years younger than me, when I was in my early 20s, you've got to rub along with people that are reasonably different from you. You just have to. There wasn't all this subculture, rising subculture. Didn't exist, you had to just get by finding some wife at university, you maybe was a bit similar to you, marry up kids, not anymore, right? Whereas now that they've got there's all these right you know based conferences and so on and they can go to and they find each other, so that's a genetic event as well because that's that's um an event in terms of of the sexual selection into so people are able to assortatively mate for for genetic conservatism and religiosity in a way that wasn't possible or not as possible. Vincent James [ 00:31:15 ] It seems like men are moving in this direction quicker than women. You were talking about women and their wokeness. Obviously, they're more woke; how it relates to intelligence. It seems like men are moving further right quicker than women, though. Edward Dutton [ 00:31:30 ] So, well, men are more psychopathic. So men are less socially and they are less anxious. So they are less socially conformist. Women are more socially conformist. Vincent James [ 00:31:40 ] Right. Edward Dutton [ 00:31:41 ] So if you go back to data from the generation born in 1920, this is Australian data. Women were more right-wing than men, controlling for age. Why? Because it was a conservative, right-wing society that had been subject since the Industrial Revolution to competitive purity signaling. And so women were more right-wing than men. If you go to the generation born in about 1950, they're about the same. And by the generation born in 1970, women are more left-wing than men. And this process because they are socially anxious. So they hyper-conform and they signal. Now, as women are also more socially perceptive than men, they're able to read a room more socially skilled. And so if I were noticing at conservative conferences over the years that there is an increasing number of educated middle-class women, young women, unmarried women, and I am noticing that, then I would think that things were moving in that direction. And these women were the kind of slightly more risk-taking women that would want to, as it were, get in there first to get the best return. But they had augured. Correctly, probably this was the way the wind was blowing. SPEAKER_5 [ 00:32:54 ] Right. Edward Dutton [ 00:32:54 ] And what I would expect to happen is that eventually this will continue. And then once things shift back to being conservative, which I suspect they will, then women will be more right-wing than men because they will purify. And so then the system will reverse. No, I agree. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:33:10 ] I think that women, once they conform to these standards, they are going to pull everybody even further right because it'll give them social status. Vincent James [ 00:33:19 ] Well, it'll convince men, I mean it'll convince men to finally be like 'oh okay, I could, I could do this now, I could say this now, like uh because women are doing, right? Right? Edward Dutton [ 00:33:28 ] Right what that would also mean though is that so there's studies on the let's say the nature of people that are on the far right, uh and they are whereas those on the far left are elevated in narcissism and Machiavellianism I. They're deeply insecure and they want praise and love, so they're über social, conform, and morality signal or to get praise and love and narcissistic, why right, that's the left, that's what they're doing. Those on the right are high in psychopathy, uh, why because. To be attracted to the far right in an environment where, let's say, in 2016 or whatever, you've got debanking, you've got being thrown off major social media platforms, you've got all this stuff. You've got to be quite disagreeable to be attracted to that. And you've got to quite like danger and thrive on it. Now, of course, that's just with men. With women, think how abhorrent to a lot of women, danger. And being disagreeable is. So one would think that a female who is on the far right, no offense, would be an extreme outlier among women at the moment. She'd be absolutely mental. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:34:38 ] Yes, that is accurate. No, that's true. I'm very disagreeable. I'm highly disagreeable. And I am attracted to danger a little bit in this sphere. Otherwise, I'm risk averse, though. So I don't know. But I do meet a lot of kind of psychopathic women in this sphere. That have been around for a while. Vincent James [ 00:34:57 ] For sure. I mean, for sure. You kind of got to be, to be honest. I know, right? Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:35:02 ] Can you talk a little bit more, before we do this segment with you, about the physical markers and psychological markers, to a lesser degree, of high mutational load? You mentioned your study. And what were the metrics that you used for your study? I know you briefly touched on that. Edward Dutton [ 00:35:22 ] A person who is low in mutational load. I remember these are small correlations and these are averages. But a person who is low in mutational load will tend to be physically and mentally healthy. So mentally they will and they will tend to be because we have selected for health alongside a pro-social personality. They will tend to have a pro-social personality as well. So they will be agreeable. They will be conscientious. They will be reasonably extroverted. They will be reasonably open-minded, and they will be low in what's called neuroticism. And this is weakly, very weakly associated. This is called general factor of personality with intelligence. And then there are, and that you can talk, therefore, of a general fitness bundle, which is mental health, physical health, pro-social personality, that has been selected for essentially as one, and religiosity as well, which has been selected for as one thing. And then you can look at certain physical the main thing would be an asymmetrical face if you have an asymmetrical face then this is implying that you are that you can't maintain a symmetrical phenotype in the face of disease that's thrown at you which means you have poor physical health, which is associated with poor mental health. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:36:53 ] How tightly is that correlated? Edward Dutton [ 00:36:55 ] It's weekly, weekly, 0. 2, 0. 1. But it is there. And it means that across a large enough sample, you will think you will see things swaying in that direction. And you will get some people at the individual level that will just have all of the kind of traits. And there's lots of markers of intelligence in the face. What is an example of someone that has low intelligence? Someone that has Down syndrome. So within the normal range, the less you look like that, controlling for race, the more intelligent you are likely to be. So a longer face, a longer nose, bigger eyes, things like that are associated with intelligence. Indeed, a symmetrical face is associated with intelligence. Because if you've got high mutational load, the brain is about 83% of the genome. So if you've got a mutational load in the face, you're sure as damn it going to have it in the brain. because it's a massive target for mutation. Left-handedness is another one. Left-handedness is associated, about 12% of white people are left-handed. It's much higher among men because it's associated with testosterone. So it's a marker of testosterone to be left-handed. But it's also a marker of having an asymmetrical brain and therefore of elevated mutational load. And consistent with that, one thing we found is that atheism and liberalism, despite the fact that they are associated with low testosterone, are also associated with being left-handed because of the elevated mutational load. Again, only a weak correlation. And there's lots of other things. Again, people ask you, oh, judge this person's physiognomy. You can't, I mean, with some people, some people are just obvious. But that's quite rare. For example, let's say how bald a chap is, what horrible stage he is controlling for age. So I'm 44. And for my age, I have a reasonable head of hair. Going bald young is associated with testosterone. Vincent James [ 00:39:00 ] Oh, going bald young. OK, well, I guess that makes more sense because everyone says like, oh, I like I always talk about being bald. I lost all my hair at like 19. But everyone's talking about being bald, like is associated with testosterone. And I was like, 'what'? I always say like, well, what about like Brian Stelter? Like he obviously doesn't have high testosterone, but he's bald. Edward Dutton [ 00:39:18 ] That's the problem with it. It's correlations and it's often quite weak correlations. And so that's where people will always come up with some counter argument. They'll say, 'oh', what about. I don't know, I can't think of anything else to talk about who's bald, but why is it that almost all American presidents aren't bald, yet you'd expect them to have high levels of testosterone or whatever? But in general, that association is there and is robust. Vincent James [ 00:39:48 ] How much is the lefty thing? You said it's correlated with testosterone. Like how much more testosterone do lefties have than righties? Edward Dutton [ 00:39:55 ] I can't tell you that, but I just know that if you inject people with testosterone in the United States, there was a study which found that it precipitates what they call a red shift. So you become more Republican the more you are injected with testosterone. Oh, so you misspoke. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:40:14 ] So Republicans have a higher level of testosterone. Vincent James [ 00:40:17 ] No, I said lefty. I mean, like, lefty. You said left-handed people. Oh, left-handed people. Oh, oh, oh. Not like left-handed people. Edward Dutton [ 00:40:25 ] Oh, okay. Vincent James [ 00:40:27 ] Yeah, like, how much more for left-handed? You don't know. Edward Dutton [ 00:40:31 ] It would tend to be small relationships. That's all I can say. Vincent James [ 00:40:35 ] Are you also left-handed? No, I was just thinking about like, there's like a lot of hitters, a lot of like baseball players that are hitters that hit left-handed are, they have like higher exit velocities on average than right-handers. Really? And also, you know, the pitchers are crazy. Like if you look at Randy Johnson, he's a lefty pitcher. He's insane, and he's totally dysgenic, but he's a badass. Edward Dutton [ 00:40:59 ] 12% of people in, let's say, the UK are left-handed. Among the Yanomamo of Venezuela, who are known as the fierce people and are one of the most violent tribes ever contacted, it's about 25%. And we are also getting more left-handed across time because left-handedness is associated with mutational load and thus dysgenics. Interesting. How much can you intervene when people are young? Vincent James [ 00:41:33 ] For instance, in terms of indoctrination, indoctrinating them to be right-wing, indoctrinating them to be conservative, to be, I don't know, anything anti-Semitic, anything you want. What can we do here? Edward Dutton [ 00:41:47 ] You can look at the genetic component of the trait. In twin studies and twin adoption studies, so um, it's a bit complicated because things can manifest differently in different time periods. But basically, something like, let's say, do you have you ever had a religious experience where you hear the voice of God? Well, that's highly genetic; that's maybe 66-70% genetic. Wow, and then um, which would be consistent with a kind of Calvinist view, wouldn't have chosen people. And then there are other things which are much, much less so, that are much more to do with, for example, female sexuality, is about 20% to do with genes and 80% to do with environment, so that's why you get the women that go through these lesbian-ish phases or whatever um, and um, and a plastic sexuality when they're young. Whereas male sexuality is about 40% to do with genetics. Vincent James [ 00:42:52 ] Interesting. That is interesting because they're basically just going to rebel. Even if you do try to indoctrinate them, force them to go to church, force them to do this, they're just eventually going to rebel. I think a lot of it does have to do with genetics. I was thinking about this. My son, when he was really little, he first picked up a baseball and he was trying to throw it left-handed. I was like, no, you're not going to be a lefty. You're going to be a righty. Throw it with this hand. I just wonder, would he have been left-handed if I didn't intervene at a young age? Edward Dutton [ 00:43:21 ] That actually plays a part, like in terms of politics-The left-handedness is about, I think it might be about half genetic. I mean, environmental insults seem to bring about left-handedness. So people that are, let's say, born highly prematurely are much more likely to be left-handed because the brain is meant to be optimally skewed. And if it's optimally skewed, you're going to tend to be right-handed. And if it's more skewed because of brain damage or something, then you push towards being left-handed. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:43:52 ] Really? What about low birth weight? Would that cause left-handedness? Edward Dutton [ 00:43:56 ] Yeah, yes. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:43:57 ] Oh, interesting. Vincent James [ 00:43:58 ] You don't have to worry. Your baby is like 100 pounds. I know my baby. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:44:01 ] No, I was thinking about my mom because my mom is left-handed, but she was a four-pound baby, I think, at term. Oh, got it. Reilly [ 00:44:07 ] I saw my son holding a crayon with his left hand the other day, and I got kind of concerned. Yeah, you got to correct that right. Vincent James [ 00:44:14 ] I'm not just talking about being left-handed. I'm saying, like, how much can you intervene? Edward Dutton [ 00:44:18 ] In everything in terms of politics, in terms of religiosity, in terms of left-handedness, in the literature almost everything that we have assessed is depends on what it is um is partly genetic, part and partly environmental and when I say environmental I include in that things that happen in the womb so for example male sexuality um has a strong birth order effect the more older brothers you have the more likely you are to be gay And this is because the female the male fetus produces these male hormones which the female immune system reacts against. And she reacts against them more strongly with each pregnancy, flooding the male fetus with female hormones and eventually making it gay. And it seems that this is adaptive because it means that there's less males in a polygamous mating system that reduces into male conflict and thus conflict within the group when fighting other groups and that kind of thing. But there's always an environmental component and it just depends what the issue is. What is the issue that is? So some things like intelligence, there's very little you can do. You can give someone a stimulating environment. In their childhood, um, and that's interesting because the heritability of intelligence in adulthood is 0. 8, but in childhood it's 0. 2, because they are in an environment which is created by their parents who may be more or less genetically intelligent than them, and then what will happen you'll get this with adoptions, you'll get the this nice middle-class American couple adopt this I know these children of child drug addicts or something like this And when it's 18, it will be pushed to its phenotypic maximum intelligence by the intellectually stimulating environment that they give it, reading it books at bedtime and whatever. And then as they get older, it's called the Wilson effect. The genetic component comes to the fore. They start creating their own environment consistent with their own innate intelligence. And their intelligence may well rise. But in the case of that example I've given you, it's more likely to fall. Interesting. Because their genetic intelligence is going to be that of people that are drug addicts and their average IQ is going to be 80 or 90 or something. Vincent James [ 00:46:31 ] Yeah, so it just depends on what it is. Because like, I mean, the political side of it, because then you have to sort of like consider, and I guess you can't even control for this, but you have to consider the potential for rebellion, right? Because you can like train your kid throughout their entire childhood to be a conservative and, you know, reject all this woke crap and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How much are they going to rebel against because you shoved it so much in their face? It's a balance. Edward Dutton [ 00:47:00 ] There's a genetic component. They're not from what seems to happen with these rebellions. Well, there's two things that I can think of. One is they rebel for a period and then just return to the norm. Or the other is that it's a superficial rebellion, but it's not really a rebellion. You're brought up as an intolerant, fundamentalist Christian that's very black and white and that thinks everyone else is going to go to hell. And then you become an extremely shrill, woke, anti-Christian woman that thinks Christianity is evil and that everybody's racist. There's a level on which that's quite similar. Right. It's a similar psychology. I know of a case in Oulu, where I live in northern Finland, of a guy who, when I first met him, he was a ridiculous, laughing Nazi. He was good pals with David Duke and all kinds of people like this. And then he went through some sort of breakdown in his early 30s. He was imprisoned in America as an enemy of the state. And then he went through some sort of breakdown, and now he's an extreme left-wing woke person. Bizarre. What's the same about that is the fundamental psychology, the need to feel morally superior to other people, the need for a black and white world. That's what's similar. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:48:21 ] Right. All right. Edward Dutton [ 00:48:22 ] And that's attractive to a certain kind of a neurotic person with essentially borderline kind of traits. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:48:29 ] Fascinating. Before we close out, we wanted to show you a few pictures and see what you think about their physiognomy. Reilly [ 00:48:36 ] Let's get here. Let me get some of this up. So what do you think of these two? SPEAKER_4 [ 00:48:43 ] No, you, I mean, you wouldn't, would you? No. Smash or pass. Smash or pass. Edward Dutton [ 00:48:53 ] But I mean, she's not quite, I mean, the woman, if you go back, the woman, I'm not even going to bother with the old woman. You need to control for age with this thing. She's got she's obviously she's got a highly asymmetrical face. She's got a snub nose. She's got sticking out ears. She's got quite a masculine jaw. She's got she's she's ghastly. The only thing about her is that she's managed to grow reasonable sized lips. And lips of a woman are a secondary sexual characteristic, which would be actually consistent with. Good health to have a woman that has narrow lips for example women that are autistic tend to have narrow lips there's a specific look associated with them high to elevated testosterone you see which includes narrow lips but she does have reasonably thick lips but otherwise a masculinized neck um and uh yeah I just ghastly next okay are we asking if they're left at what do we know his first impressions of these women okay how about this woman Well, yeah, you've given her an image that makes her look like a witch. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:50:02 ] She often looks like this. This is pretty accurate. Reilly [ 00:50:06 ] This is not out of the norm, though. Edward Dutton [ 00:50:09 ] She's got these mad staring eyes, a high amount of blood flow in the eyes. She's crazy. She's got very, very bright teeth, but I imagine that's just because she's American and she pays to bleach her teeth. And I have no more to say about that. Okay, hold on. Vincent James [ 00:50:27 ] Let's go. Wait, bleaching teeth, is that a thing? Oh, yeah. Because here's like another picture of the woman. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:50:33 ] Yeah, she still looks crazy there. Edward Dutton [ 00:50:36 ] Yeah, it's masculine. She's a very masculinized face. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:50:38 ] Yeah, very big jaw. Facial asymmetry. One of her eyes is higher than the other. Very big jaw. Edward Dutton [ 00:50:43 ] What about this one? Oh, Lord. That's much more feminized, isn't it? I'm guessing she's mixed race or something. Is she? Reilly [ 00:50:53 ] She was adopted, so we don't know. Edward Dutton [ 00:50:56 ] She's mixed race. You can just look at the nose. Can you pull up Pearl Davis? It's much more difficult to make judgments like that. She's got quite a masculine jaw, but there's not much more I can stick out ears. Reilly [ 00:51:12 ] What about, let's go, let's see here. We've got a couple more down here. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:51:20 ] He said no oldies. Edward Dutton [ 00:51:22 ] I don't want people to deteriorate. That's not fair. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:51:26 ] Okay, that facial expression is just too. Is she the one that owns Crown and Thistle? Yeah. Reilly [ 00:51:33 ] Look up Pearl Davis. Look up Pearl Davis. Here we go. How about these two? These two. Edward Dutton [ 00:51:39 ] Oh, they seem much more. I don't know. I can't tell you with their left or right wing, but they seem much more sensible. Yes, indeed. Reilly [ 00:51:45 ] Well, what if I show you their shirts? They're definitely liberals, but they've lost their way. How about, can we do this guy? Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:51:57 ] Well, he's a hick. He's like a hick critical period. What do you call them in the UK again? Edward Dutton [ 00:52:04 ] Well, I don't know if he's the equivalent of what we call a chav. I mean, at least he's doing some kind of job, which they wouldn't be doing. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:52:11 ] Okay, last one. Edward Dutton [ 00:52:14 ] Well, yeah, that's Pearl Davis. I know who that is. She's friends with a friend of mine. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:52:21 ] Oh, no, he's not going to say it then. He's not going to say it. She has severe eye asymmetry that I find distasteful. Vincent James [ 00:52:28 ] Oh, let me ask you a question. Okay, real quick. I have this theory that if you, because my daughter is super tall. She plays volleyball. I have this theory that if you jump enough; when you're young, as you're hitting puberty, before you hit puberty, whatever, if you jump enough, that eventually you become taller, is there any, have you looked into that at all? Edward Dutton [ 00:52:54 ] No, that's why would that be the case? Vincent James [ 00:52:56 ] I don't know. I don't know. Why is my daughter taller than me? Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:53:00 ] I don't know. Genetics are a funny thing sometimes. Your wife is tall-ish. And you're five foot two, so. Vincent James [ 00:53:08 ] But why are all these like... I'm about five foot two. I'm five feet two, maybe horizontally. Reilly [ 00:53:16 ] I've got one more, though. Hold on. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:53:18 ] Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. Edward Dutton [ 00:53:22 ] Masculinized face, slightly dysmorphic ears, overweight. Fat. Reilly [ 00:53:29 ] Fat gay. Slightly dysmorphic ears. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:53:33 ] That one's going to hurt the worst. Reilly [ 00:53:34 ] Oh, dear Lord. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:53:35 ] You're the best. Reilly [ 00:53:36 ] I think we've actually got some questions for you from Super Chats. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:53:42 ] He does do a podcast after this, so we're going to have to hustle. Edward Dutton [ 00:53:45 ] I got the timing wrong because the Americans have changed their clocks and we in Europe haven't. Oh, yes. Vincent James [ 00:53:53 ] So are you late or you got time? Edward Dutton [ 00:53:57 ] It's 7 o'clock here. My podcast is at 9. Reilly [ 00:53:59 ] Okay, perfect. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:54:00 ] What do you keep looking at? My husband is here. Reilly [ 00:54:02 ] Oh, okay. Geez, I'm like, what? I didn't mean to freak you out. You're freaking me out. My gun's in the other room. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:54:08 ] Well, don't tell people that. Reilly [ 00:54:10 ] It's in the other room right now, but it's usually right here. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:54:13 ] There's a cat. Vincent James [ 00:54:14 ] I know there's a cat outside. Before you go into Super Chess, I just want to touch on this one more time. So there are some things on the internet, like the reputable people that seem like they're highly educated that talk about how if you do certain stretches, spinal stretches, T-spine stretches, things like this, jumping, box jumps, that you will be able to become taller than you genetically would be able to normally. Edward Dutton [ 00:54:40 ] Could that be mediated by just being that these things cause you to be healthy? So it's not the fact of jumping. It's the fact of being healthy that means you reach your phenotypic maximum height. Reilly [ 00:54:52 ] Yeah, that makes sense. That's interesting. Okay, so let's see here. We've got a real Ubermensch tipped $14. Oh, there it is. Okay, we'll put it there. Professor, love the work. Does a simple chart exist that demonstrates heritability of various attributes? Edward Dutton [ 00:55:13 ] Yes, I'm sure there does. If you were just, I know, I can't think at all. I know I’ve seen papers where they look at the heritability of different, or it would be a correlation matrix or something, but the, but the, yeah, the heritage, I have seen such charts. Yes. Reilly [ 00:55:27 ] Okay. We have Joey who sent a $25. Edward Dutton [ 00:55:31 ] In general, if you don’t know the answer, it’s normally about 50%. Reilly [ 00:55:36 ] Oh, okay. Oh, wow. Joey asked, any interesting correlations with baldness asking for a friend? And I think we talked about that a little bit. Outside of testosterone. Edward Dutton [ 00:55:48 ] I’ve got a theory that it’s genius would correlate with baldness. I’m yet to prove it, but I’ve done a number of studies that show that if you control for intelligence, then the big predictor of genius is. Highly original achievement is testosterone levels. And we did a study, it was reported in the Sun newspaper in the UK, No Balls, No Nobel, where we got national level markers of things like baldness, mid-pellagial hair, muscularity, sex frequency, left-handedness. A number of other markers of testosterone. And we found that there was like, if you control for intelligence, there was something like a 0. 6 or 0. 7 correlation with national per capita genius. So, what I would predict is that someone should do this study: just go through all of the photographs of all of the Nobel Prize science winners and control for age, and look at how bald they are using the Horwood scale. And I bet that baldness is associated with genius. Vincent James [ 00:56:52 ] That's interesting. That would be pretty easy to do. Smaller sample size. Reilly [ 00:56:56 ] Let's see. Edgar Allen Pro says, 'I wish the survey questions.' Geez, why isn't that popping up? Oh, maybe if I do this. There we go. Edgar Allen Pro says, 'I wish the survey questions would specify which religiosity.' Obviously, Christianity has it over the other forms of religiosity. Vincent James [ 00:57:13 ] I don't think so. I think the last I saw from the Pew Research study was Catholicism was more associated with than any other religion. As opposed to like Islam or something? As opposed to like Protestantism and Judaism. Edward Dutton [ 00:57:30 ] The studies will tend to give you a Likert scale where they will ask you questions with regard to religiousness on a scale of one to seven, such as how often do you pray? That's how they tend to assess it. Although in general, the samples that I'm talking about are American samples and they're overwhelmingly Christian. SPEAKER_4 [ 00:57:49 ] Interesting. Edward Dutton [ 00:57:50 ] So it's almost certainly Christianity that they're looking at. And the samples do allow you in the National Longitudinal Study of Youth to break it down in a more nuanced way. Reilly [ 00:58:04 ] Okay. Was that the last question for them? Sorry. Kenzie tipped $50. Would any of today's discussion fit into what's happening in Tinder dating, the swipe dating crisis? Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:58:15 ] So I guess. Reilly [ 00:58:17 ] Any correlations with the woke shit and dating and online dating? Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:58:22 ] Oh, I assume that she meant physical attractiveness. Reilly [ 00:58:24 ] Thank you for the big super chat. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:58:27 ] Physical attractiveness and swiping right. Edward Dutton [ 00:58:31 ] So what's the question? What does he want to know? Reilly [ 00:58:35 ] Would any of today's discussion fit into what's happening in Tinder dating? Edward Dutton [ 00:58:38 ] Well, I suppose what you're seeing, although it's probably a cultural thing, is the woke broader culture undermining traditions to do with sexuality and the control of sexuality. And what that does is it creates a kind of selection event where, if you're the kind of woman that's a bit of a whore, basically, and gets sucked into this. Then, you will find all of these high-status men may well want to date you and have sex with you, but you won't necessarily end up having children and you won't necessarily find the man that you want. And so, you'll wait until it's too late. And then, you won't be able to find a man of higher status than you because increasingly women are more educated than men. And then, you'll end up becoming a lesbian or something. You're selected out. And then, equally, if you're a man and you're in that kind of situation, and you're genetically unfit, basically, then because we've created essentially a de facto polygamous society with this app, then you're selected out. Rebecca Hargraves [ 00:59:49 ] Interesting. Edward Dutton [ 00:59:50 ] So you could argue that it becomes part of the broader woke plan selection event, although it has negative consequences to it, such as if you have lots of men that can't access females, they form rape gangs or whatever. But you can see how it would act as a kind of a selection event to some extent. I don't know how I don't know how I don't understand why people use this app. I don't understand why they don't just go out. Maybe I'm just too old. Why don't you just go down the pub and chat to people? Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:00:18 ] Nobody does that anymore, but you're right. They definitely should. Vincent James [ 01:00:22 ] It's a mental disorder, right? I think people are just becoming more and more introverted. And I think guys are like, just, they are too scared to talk to chicks. Edward Dutton [ 01:00:35 ] That's interesting. So they've been brought up on a maladaptive roadmap of life, which has told them you're a man, you're rubbish. You're no good. You're awful. You have to be a man. And it's the people that are genetically resistant to that psychological abuse that are going to get the chicks. Or they get inculcated with these very, very bad ideas that are wrong. Women equal to men and women don't like sexist men. Women don't like gallant men. Women don't like men that treat them well. Basically, they're told to do all the wrong things. And the people that are resistant to that, they will have life. That are going to win. That are going to take over. Vincent James [ 01:01:16 ] Right. Yeah, that's what Malcolm Collins says too. Same thing. Interesting. Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:01:21 ] Were those all the questions in the super chat? Reilly [ 01:01:24 ] Specifically for Edward. Now, are you a doctor? Are you like Dr. Edward Dutton? Edward Dutton [ 01:01:30 ] I have a doctorate. Reilly [ 01:01:32 ] So you'd get called Doctor. He'd call you Dr. Dutton. He's like, 'no', don't do that. Edward Dutton [ 01:01:37 ] I have a doctorate in the anthropology of religion, a docentship in the anthropology of religion, and various honorary professorships in evolutionary psychology. But I'm not a medical doctor, no. Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:01:50 ] Well, it was fascinating to discuss this with you. Thank you so much for joining us. Check him out on jollyheretic. com. Is there anywhere else that people can find you? Edward Dutton [ 01:01:59 ] Well, they can find my YouTube channel, which is Jolly Heretic, which is on YouTube, yes. Yeah. And the Substack. And all my books. I've written about 23 books. The latest one is on this guy called Jonathan Bowden. He's not that well known in America yet. But he's pretty big. He's the kind of prophet of Gen Z right-wing people. Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:02:25 ] Oh, okay, cool. You made a video about this recently. Edward Dutton [ 01:02:29 ] I did, yes. Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:02:30 ] All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, Duddy. We will see you soon. Bye-bye. Edward Dutton [ 01:02:34 ] Pleasure. Bye-bye. Reilly [ 01:02:38 ] Sweet. All right. That was great. That was a wonderful interview. That was fun. We've got some other business to take care of before we let everybody to go. We've got some more super chats. Vincent James [ 01:02:50 ] We'll do your thing first. SPEAKER_4 [ 01:02:52 ] Yeah. What? Reilly [ 01:02:53 ] Do that thing first. What thing? SPEAKER_4 [ 01:02:55 ] Do the thing. Reilly [ 01:02:55 ] I was going to do the thing. If you just give me a moment, I've got to pull it up. Where is it? Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:03:00 ] Sorry, I'm getting stressed out. My husband's texting me. Reilly [ 01:03:02 ] He's like, 'we've got to go now.' Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:03:03 ] He's like, 'baby's freaking out.' Vincent James [ 01:03:05 ] You can go. We can. Reilly [ 01:03:07 ] We can figure this out later. Anyway, this program was brought to you by our sponsor. Wait, do you want me to do this or not? Double salutes. Rebecca Hargraves [ 01:03:13 ] No, no, I'm just going to peace out. Reilly [ 01:03:15 ] You're going to peace out. Okay, well, anyway, this program was brought to you by our wonderful sponsors, Antelope Hill Publishing, America's leading publisher of dissident books, including a wide array of both original works, new and first-time translations of important historical titles. Our catalog focuses on bringing you books that mainstream publishers won't touch. Books that challenge the ruling orthodoxy on politics and the twisted nature of the system that we live under. Among our titles, hold on, let me pull this up. Among our titles are works like the Open Society Playbook, a deep dive into the web of NGOs and shadowy government funding that has recently come under fire in the USAID scandal for spreading left-wing ideological corruption at home and abroad. 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Vincent James [ 01:04:57 ] com and a large portion of the proceeds from Idaho Tallow Company go to support like this show like most of it and this and this is good I swear by this stuff, man; I just started using this stuff and I totally swear by it. As you've heard before, um, this is like legit-this one is the best, legit. Reilly [ 01:05:19 ] That's what that peppermint uh vanilla, this one is the Vanilla sandalwood. It's just tallow soap in general. It's absolutely amazing. But it doesn't matter what scent you get because it's all the same. Vincent James [ 01:05:31 ] It's all the same. This is like really good for your skin. And also if you have like a store, like if you have like a store and you want to order a bunch of these to sell, we can work something out for you guys as well. So yeah, this is good stuff. It really helps my, because I got, I talk about this all the time. Like I have eczema and it's. It doesn't cure it, but it's, we can't say that, right? But it helps. Reilly [ 01:05:55 ] You've noticed a difference since you started using it. Vincent James [ 01:05:57 ] A big difference. And I've never even thought about tallow, using tallow until this came about. Yeah. And I started using it. It's awesome. Reilly [ 01:06:04 ] All right. Let's see. We've got, I think, some other super chats here. Let me just make sure that this is, let me make sure that this is popping up the right way. Vincent James [ 01:06:17 ] And I'm just going to give up. Well, you just have to have that scene on this screen that we're on. Reilly [ 01:06:24 ] Yeah, there we go. Boom. Okay, so Will Pine sent $5. I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous. That's a good one. Anonymous sent $5. Let's see. Are you going to play? It's not playing. Anyway, Anonymous sent $5, sent you an email. Subject: Basic plan maybe in Spam. Please discuss with Cam, okay? Is he trying to rhyme? Huh, was he trying to rhyme? I don't know; we'll check that out. Uh, will pine donated five dollars. Amazing guest, thank you. Um, yeah, that was awesome. Actually, I wasn't sure all about Edward Dunn's background, but he clearly knows what he's talking about and like the things that he's saying are obviously true when it comes to the genetic mutation. And, left, I've been wondering uh about that whole thing actually. I think it was Charles Johnson that kind of like incepted the idea that like the whole LGBTQ thing is literally just a eugenics program run by the left to like get rid of these freaks. Vincent James [ 01:07:35 ] I don't think that's what he's saying; I don't think that's what he's saying at all, and Malcolm Collins. both argue is that essentially and i i don't really know a good way to explain it but essentially like this this is happening in society to correct society it's almost like a genetic like he said it was sent by darwin or god or whatever it's almost like um because society was going down this unhealthy path and the only way to reverse course in a quick fashion before we all die off like he said like if a meteor hits like we would all be totally fucked like because we're unhealthy and whatever or whatever if a new disease or whatever you know so this is sort of like um a genetic correction to society to make sure that we re reverse Course. And so now we see, we can see it. I mean, like the stuff that we were saying 10 years ago, full-blown now, dude, full-blown, like obvious. Reilly [ 01:08:33 ] You can't even pretend not to see it at this point. Vincent James [ 01:08:35 ] It's what was that church that everyone was like, used to freak out about back in like the Westboro Baptist church, Baptist church. Yeah. They would seem tame compared to some of the accounts I follow on Twitter. Reilly [ 01:08:50 ] Twitter's been off the hook over the past few days. It's been really wild. I think it's broken today at this point. Be careful searching, by the way, if you're on Twitter today and you search. I was trying to pull up those pictures for Edward Dutton and porn started popping up. That's never happened to me before. I have all the filters turned on. Whatever. Anyway, we got a big super chat from the Upstater. $50. Thank you. Let's go. Salute. Vincent James [ 01:09:19 ] Hit me, red man. Reilly [ 01:09:21 ] There we go. The Upstater says, 'Hey, Backlash. Love from Upstate New York.' No big message today besides everyone joined the $50 Super Chat Club. Very based. Very true. I agree. Anonymous tipped $5. If white, marry white. Have children in Canada. If not, plus not-civ-nat marry white Russia, EU, or Australia citizen, create taxable for-fund ETF portfolio, 25% QQQ SPY iBit plus VTEP in Roth, 50% QQQ SPY, $50 weekly to saving Roth plus fund tax-free state. Okay, this is not financial advice. You don't understand what that means? No. I actually understand what all that means. He's basically saying for you to invest in the QQQ, SPY, iBit, and VTEP, which are all exchange-traded funds in the stock market. But if we pull up the stock market today, it's kind of a fucking bloodbath. You know, Bitcoin. By the way, you can send us Bitcoin on thebacklash . net. We have this handy-dandy Bitcoin fundraiser. If you go here to support the show, you'll see Bitcoin fundraiser. You can also donate in Bitcoin anonymously on the website right here. And so we would very much appreciate that. But Bitcoin is down. What is it at now? 80,000. 79. So if you don't want your Bitcoin anymore, send it to us. We will take it and not sell it. You know. So anyway, yeah, this is not financial advice. Maybe we'll have Cameron take a look at that later. Vincent James [ 01:11:03 ] I don't know about living in Canada. From everyone who I know that have visited Canada recently say it's like freaking India in a lot of the parts that they go to. Yeah, basically. Reilly [ 01:11:15 ] Egren, can somebody send these phonetically to me? David, what is your Bible passage for today? And to you, Blonde, what music tools do you guys like? Cameron, what is your thought? Maybe this is an old one. Ohio and Intel semiconductors. Bible verse of the day is the same as always. 1 Thessalonians 2: 14 through 16. That is the most important Bible verse. Go look it up. Vincent James [ 01:11:39 ] Memorize it. I think I know what that is. I think I know what that is. Reilly [ 01:11:48 ] And I think that that catches us up on all the super chats. Let me just double check here. She just ditched out on us like that. Can you believe it? Oh, well. Gosh. We're going to have to do something about that. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a wonderful episode with Eber Dutton. Make sure you follow us on all of our platforms, Twitter, at Real Backlash. We're on Rumble, Backlash Podcast. On YouTube, Blonde in the Belly of the Beast. But definitely make sure you follow our Rumble. We need to crack 1 ,000 followers over on Rumble. And we will be back with you on Wednesday with Cameron McGregor. And we are going to be, what did she say that we're going to be talking about? We'll be talking about something fun. Something fun. So tune in Wednesday evening, 4 p . m. Pacific, 7 p . m. Eastern. Thank you all for watching. Have a great day. Later.