Episode 87 — The Truth About Mary Phagan, Leo Frank and the ADL with Mary Phagan-Keen

Episode 87 Episode 87 — Mary Phagan Episode 87 Episode 87 — The Truth About Mary Phagan, Leo Frank and the ADL with Mary Phagan-Keen.mp4 [0:00:07] Cameron M Welcome to the backlash. I am your host Rebecca Hargraves joined as always by Mr. Dave Riley. How are you doing Dave? I'm doing great. How are you? Pretty good. Nice. You can find us on ex at real backlash. Our website the backlash dot net. Support us on subscribe star dot com slash the backlash patreon dot com slash the backlash and your super chats that will be red live at the end of our show to the backlash dot net slash super chat or right here on my YouTube channel, blonde and the belly of the beast or on our rumble channel on our rumble channel, which is [0:03:02] Dave Reilly following backlash. Also on our YouTube channel, which is at real backlash. Find all of our links on the backlash dot net. Follow us on Instagram. Follow us on tic tac tic tac toe. It's because you have nicknacks. Nicknacks, your primary source of nicotine who is not a sponsor of the show one day. A big thanks to our sponsors, Atlas fully and premier dealers of gold and silver Idaho, that is skincare without any current disruptors and it'll appeal to people that will publish literally anything anything. Yeah, how's your weekend? Good weekend? It was fine. It was not a vevel. We did the feast of Christ the king at our church. And it was magnificent. It was like three hours long. It's like the longest mass we have all year. And we did the little parade around the kids did okay in a three hour mask. Fantastic. I brought my third non-catholic to mass in a month. So we're we're getting out there. We're [0:03:59] Rebecca Hargraves going to proselytize. Even though the pope doesn't want us to proselytize anymore, I'm going to do what he's going to do. He's going to convert all of you. And I promised I promised my daughter. She's been like diligently making new things to show off. So she did this little watercolor painting of the sacred heart. Beautiful. So anyway, beautiful, beautiful. Now fulfilled all of my contractual obligation. Also, don't forget. We're hanging out tonight Prairie Pavilion 5 p.m. But you're a lot of fun. Please don't shoot us. We'll be bringing pizza. Really, I thought we were getting tacos. The taco truck is closed. Oh Monday. It's Monday. They have taco Tuesdays. So we'll be getting some pizza. Okay. Maybe I'll get a case of beer. Okay, cool. I don't know what could go wrong. What could possibly go wrong, pizza and beer. I'd like to introduce our guest, Mary Fagan Keane, the great grand niece of Mary Fagan who was murdered in 1913. She's been involved in preserving her great aunt's legacy and researching the case, particularly through her book The Murder of Little Mary Fagan. Welcome to the show today. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Glad to be here. Awesome. What inspired you to dedicate so much time and research to writing about your great aunt, her case? Well, I had my oral history by my daddy. And I discovered in several of the books as a young girl, teenage girl, 15, 16 and 17, that the authors that were writing the books were very different than the story. [0:05:29] Cameron M The family was telling me. And that's when I started the quest. Actually, when I was 15, daddy and I went to Georgia State University here in Atlanta. And we started reading the old newspaper accounts, the original newspaper accounts, which was on microfish. And we made copies of them. And then we would bring them back in every summer. We did that when I was 15, 16 and 17 and discovered that it wasn't the same facts that the books were saying. And it was different. And I wanted to know why it was different. I just have a very inquisitive mind. [0:05:59] Rebecca Hargraves I wanted love to do research. So that's when I started, I started actually at age 13, but seriously at age 15, I started the research. So what were the biggest discrepancies that you found between what was Episode 87 written at the time and then the understood history of the case? Wow. You want to go for a week? I'm sorry. There's just so much you got to pick and choose what you want to do. It's just so hard. The main thing was that there were mobs and people yelling, hey, did you or will hang you? There were people on rooftops looking in at the trial of Leo Frank and that he was convicted because he was because there was an anti-semitism. Those I found out were very different when you read the original newspaper accounts. For example, all three editors of the newspapers at that time, the journal Constitution in Georgia had Jewish editors. There was no mention of Leo Frank ever in those original newspaper accounts of him being Jewish. It would just say Leo Frank factory superintendent. [0:06:59] Dave Reilly I think it was more of a northern aggression that the South was was feeling about it and it wasn't anti-Semitism. It was just a very trying time for people in Georgia because you know the war between the States was only 60 something years before that and they hadn't really recovered from that. That's pretty hard. The other thing was that I'll just talk a little bit about Mary that she wasn't raped while I found out that she was the original newspaper transcripts have the testimony of Dr. Harris. [0:07:32] Rebecca Hargraves What was really hard and I'm going out of sync here, but was the fact that the original trial transcript of the trial in 1965 disappeared when Leonard Dennerdstein and Harry Golan wrote their books. They sent the research teams to Atlanta and when they left, there was no trial transcript. [0:07:52] Cameron M So we do not have that to look at all you have is the original newspaper accounts which address the questions and the answers of each person that was on the witness stand there is however which I have a copy of is the brief of evidence just gives the summary of their statements and stuff but what's interesting about the brief is they do have all the exhibits which I think are very critical in learning about the case. There's just so much I can't tell you there's so many hoaxes I call them hoaxes white marks on Mary no didn't happen exodus of Jews after Frank's lynching didn't happen. Let me get my let's hang on a second. [0:08:29] Dave Reilly I got a hold of this. Go for it. [0:08:33] Rebecca Hargraves Here we go. All right. [0:08:35] Cameron M So did Frank have a fair trial they said he did not how come then the 13 courts say that he was guilty and never challenged the verdict of the jury. It was three Georgia Supreme courts and two Supreme courts that said the same thing nobody questioned his guilt at all whatsoever. There were plants brings the things that actually planted evidence to try to frame two three people actually newly Jim Conley and John get a fake and family member very close to the family didn't he hire a private investigator to do that the [0:09:12] Dave Reilly Pinkerton's actually I believe he hired the pinkerton national detective service paid them with money from the national pencil company which he owned right and I don't know Mary you might know how long the investigation was but they turned right around and said no he did it. Even though he was Episode 87 paying for their bills you would imagine like you know if he's paying their bills that they would have like tried to make it look like he wasn't guilty or something like that but the evidence was clearly so overwhelming but he planted the bloody shirt right right and a note. Oh of course there was a note too like I did it. Jim Conley. [0:09:50] Rebecca Hargraves And nobody can just be that sorry to interrupt you Mary. [0:09:53] Cameron M That's okay that's okay I like it when it's like this. [0:09:55] Dave Reilly It's a lot easier because I just you know I can go to so many angles and I just want to see what you think the viewers would be interested in. [0:10:02] Cameron M The pinkerton detective definitely said that Leo Frank was the guilty party and so they did have some contract controversy with the national pencil company because they did not pay the pinkerton's and they took it to [0:10:15] Rebecca Hargraves course so that's an interesting aspect that you could talk about hours for just on that one subject but I think having the plants they planted the what did they call it the club in the basement. They also planted an envelope supposedly with Mary's number on it and when you look when they actually looked at the envelope it was the wrong number of Mary's number that she that Leo Frank has her as an employee they all have numbers and that was not her number on that envelope. And so it was just real interesting to me that they did all that plus more the white marks I said murder notes were Jim Conley Jim Conley said that Leo Frank dictated the notes and I firmly believe that because of the fact. Of the fact that I have daddy told me that the note said a tall slain black man okay we're talking about the South hang on a second. I'm old I have really knows sometimes so he said that in there and he said in the South do you really think the South would call a person like that of that color a black man. [0:11:22] Cameron M Right now it was colored or Negro and in the brief of evidence when the the the colored people testified is what they call them colored and they put it in parentheses on the brief of evidence so that verified to me when my dad said there's no way. [0:11:35] Rebecca Hargraves You know he said there was just no way that Jim Conley would have put that term on there and the other thing about the note and a lot of historians don't bring it up is the fact that Jim Conley had never met me at least so how did he know he was along all slain black person. So that that did that too so I didn't I talk about a lot in the book to a little bit about the shit in the shaft they called the SLS Jim Conley did defecate but you know it never was made an issue in the whole trial but after the trial. [0:12:02] Dave Reilly It became an issue and everybody said y'all the elevator smashes the first time those elevators even in Atlanta in the 80s and 90s when we would go visit friends with lived in warehouses with those elevators Episode 87 they don't touch the ground every time they don't so that you know I look at that too. Exodus Jews we talked about nights and Mary Fagan is a hoax which is what the vigilance committee was the group of men that lunch leo Frank they call themselves the vigilance committee. [0:12:29] Rebecca Hargraves The nights of Mary Fagan came from New York when the New York press by let's see which one it is out off ox said that six weeks before the lynching of leo Frank he brought up that there was a movement in Georgia calling themselves a night to Mary Fagan well when I did the research again. [0:12:46] Cameron M And looked at it very carefully I completely observed that all the newspapers here in Atlanta never mentioned nights of Mary Fagan and called it the vigilance committee interesting so and then there was a couple of judges that said that they were few one of the few people that knew that leo Frank was innocent however when they published their books and they said that they would leave on their deathbed the information there was no information all the many series movies documentaries they're all fictionalized accounts. The racial prejudice was really against the Negroes and the colored people I mean that was very very racist and it just I couldn't believe it you know they actually in court called Jim Conney line filthy drunken and the inward I don't say that inward but that's what they called them all throughout court and they they they were they considered colored people to be despicable low intelligence and just they really weren't people and it was awful and it came all out in court. [0:13:44] Dave Reilly Now hold on a second who is that in this you're saying that they were saying this are we talking about Leo Frank's attorneys right and they were Jewish Jewish attorneys now we're saying this about I mean that's just amazing it's amazing to me I'm sorry sorry I just wanted to put a point on that go ahead. So then the big one was calm Watson I know he was a very colorful character and I I don't address much of Tom Watson except for that he wrote the Watson's magazine and the Jeffersonian but he they keep saying that he created a lot of the anti-semitism however he during the trial of leo Frank it didn't happen he did it after the trial in 1914 you won't see anything from calm Watson on the case. [0:14:38] Rebecca Hargraves And I called the Maryfagan case now I'm going back to that because here in Atlanta in the 60s 70s 80s it was called the Maryfagan case and then it changed to the Leo Frank case so I'm changing it back to the Maryfagan case and speaking of Maryfagan what's happening today in the last 10 15 years of the current books being written there's the mirroring little Maryfagan they're calling her voluptuous and promiscuous flirtatious big for her age we all know what that means she wasn't a virgin all this kind of. [0:15:08] Dave Reilly And I verified all that through evidence that they are totally inaccurate about that right and so many of the other girls that worked at the pencil factory came forth in the trial talking very frankly about the sexual abuse that they experienced Leo Frank's hands we know that that is untrue that's disgusting yes and also boys little boys to be justified I believe I know most people don't know that I didn't know that I've known about this case. Oh my god there's voice in this thing I did an analysis and that's in my book the analysis of the people that testified the girls and the boy that testified against Leo Frank during the trial so there is in the books and there's some things. By the way we've got on the screen we have the book it's called the murder of little Maryfagan it's available on Amazon for looks like $28 but there's also a website little Maryfagan.com and I've been going over this the past few days taken a peak but there's a lot of really good resources on here other interviews if you want to dive even deeper there's articles stuff like that so just FYI for everybody listening you're able to continue and I think I think the other thing Episode 87 was there's a couple more things they had white privilege I mean Leo Frank said in the newspapers and I have that in the book a photograph of the account that that no one would know that I would suspect me that I did it it was [0:16:36] Rebecca Hargraves the work of a of a Negro it's a black man's right back to the anti-semitism angle Leo Frank was a Cornell educated engineer from the North he wasn't experiencing a lot of systemic anti-semitism he was successful and well respected in the community so this anti-semitism narrative really did emerge after the murder and the formation of the ADL right that's to and then of course the yellow journalism is brought being brought up currently now and the and the 20s 2020s so I was surprised about that because it had never mentioned been mentioned before that my daddy had told me he said I was sensationalized but I think it I think what he really met and and I'm proud to say this is that I found out that I don't think it was sensationalized or they're in the trial I think it became [0:17:25] Cameron M sensationalized after the trial in the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune came into it and then it became another mini war between the States and that's when I feel like it really got sensationalized I think the land on these papers you gotta remember that [0:17:39] Rebecca Hargraves editors were all Jews they were very very profane but nobody says that absolutely yeah and I think they did experience some bias but that bias was the [0:17:50] Dave Reilly resentment that he was this industrialist from the North that was yes and that he was employing child labor which the the southerners resented right right child labor yeah yeah absolutely you're right on point and then the last one of [0:18:04] Rebecca Hargraves course and the big one was Alonzo man coming forward saying that he saw Jim coming with the body of my [0:18:09] Cameron M grain ant little Mary Fagan on the first floor instead of the second floor with a murder occurred and that was a [0:18:15] Dave Reilly big thing and it's been ever since 1982 it's been a journey that I never thought I would go through but I'm very [0:18:23] Cameron M strong and I made it through it and I'm happy about that and I'm proud of myself and I think this is the perfect [0:18:31] Rebecca Hargraves Episode 87 timing for me in my life to put it all together and writing and let people know how evil and devious the ADL has been and several people in Georgia in trying to exonerate Leo Frank absolutely have you experienced personal attacks because of your book no that's fantastic well that's good that's good no no no no of course [0:18:56] Dave Reilly no but I mean it's incredible to me that it's like you know you have this the trial that went through several courts there's no question about Leo Frank's guilt and then this group the ADL gets founded and then they've just been out here smearing and slandering this poor little 14 year old girl who got raped the death for a hundred and ten a hundred and how long has it been it's been almost 120 years yes I [0:19:22] Rebecca Hargraves watched a recent ADL report some anniversary special they had done a few years ago and they actually called her a woman in it yes what yes that's the tactics that they're using she was a little girl she [0:19:35] Dave Reilly was 13 years old she would have been 14 on June 1st she was murdered on April 26 but she was a [0:19:41] Rebecca Hargraves little girl she you know yes she was but my my daddy told great grandmother said that she was you know [0:19:47] Cameron M she was big for her age or large for her age which means you know what I'm talking about [0:19:52] Rebecca Hargraves we're girls here you know what we're talking about that she was large chested but of course you also also forget to look at her and how she was dressed and how she was always covered modest she did hair thank you I think that's a good work and I'm going to steal that word from you now that she was dressed appropriately and was modest you know nobody would know it unless you were [0:20:11] Dave Reilly tight clothing she was not that kind but that's not her making her interestingly enough in 1935 [0:20:16] Cameron M this is kind of strange it was Lana Turner portrayed Little Mary Fagan oh good grief [0:20:23] Rebecca Hargraves can you believe that absolute sex symbol yep and you know the back then they had those pointed you know for zeers that you know were your chest out you know the points and everything you know I'm [0:20:34] Dave Reilly sure a Jewish director is it's it's Lana Turner they actress you can just pull up oh Lana I'm gonna try to see if I can pull this up okay okay they won't forget are you talking [0:20:46] Rebecca Hargraves Episode 87 about I'm sorry I didn't tell you the time they won't forget yeah they won't forget the name [0:20:49] Cameron M of the movie and it's based on a college professor instead you know they changed the story [0:20:55] Rebecca Hargraves I'm sorry I keep talking with my hands I'm Italian no it's okay there we go based [0:21:00] Dave Reilly based can we pull the picture of of Lana Turner too yeah yeah absolutely that was her first role [0:21:06] Rebecca Hargraves that was her first role oh geez yeah yeah a Jewish curated sex symbol from the 40s I believe [0:21:15] Cameron M that's unbelievable state played Little Mary Fagan wow now let me see if I can find [0:21:23] Dave Reilly and Robert Rosen no way where the writers it was produced by Warner Jack Warner and where's the director sir who's the director oh I don't remember five I'm sure I put it in my place the more than the joy is this is this guy I'm not getting my my judar is not going off on this guy [0:21:50] Rebecca Hargraves okay gentile gentile you looks like a Gentile uh unreal oh no no no no no so it's totally fine sure sure [0:22:08] Dave Reilly yeah that's why we're seeing you know we're seeing this you know happening of course Mary I'm sure you've seen there was this story that broke out earlier this year or was it last year They discovered tunnels under 770, in, in, in, in, New York. Crown Heights. Right. Right. Right. And they're pulling out these mattresses with stains on them. [0:22:32] Rebecca Hargraves And then there's also another story that popped off about a Jewish group called the Lev [0:22:37] Dave Reilly Tahor, who was trafficking and raping children in Guatemala. And it actually, there was a riot that started. Down there. And then, you know, with the, uh, the Israeli war in Gaza, you'll remember that there was this moment where the Israeli soldiers in the IDF were raping Palestinian prisoners. Yes. Right. And when they got arrested for that, it's a Marben Gavir, and a bunch of his radical followers [0:23:05] Rebecca Hargraves were holding pro-rape riots outside of the jail in Israel. [0:23:13] Dave Reilly Episode 87 What is the problem here? Yeah. And then Jeffery Epstein. Right. [0:23:17] Rebecca Hargraves Well, it's sentient in the tunnel. Well, Leo Frank Kamei is the first, um, sexual pervert, as my dad told me, it was a said-the-word sexual pervert. [0:23:26] Cameron M We now call it pedophile, um, that has, was ever convicted in the United States of Raven murder. Not, I'm not, he didn't, was in convicted of rape, but he was convicted of murder, but she [0:23:35] Rebecca Hargraves was raped. It did come out in the trial during the autopsy, um, testimony. [0:23:39] Dave Reilly Why was he not convicted of rape? [0:23:41] Rebecca Hargraves At the time, they didn't know until the detectives looked at her body when they discovered [0:23:47] Cameron M her body, and until the, um, uh, the mortal, mortician and Dr. Harris and Dr. Hurt, there [0:23:54] Rebecca Hargraves was a couple doctors that looked at her body and were content, it was contentious, whether she was raped or not. [0:24:01] Cameron M The final decision was that she was raped physically. [0:24:04] Rebecca Hargraves And this is how I want, what I'd like to say about it, is great-grandmother Fanny Fagan [0:24:09] Dave Reilly Coleman said that Mary was large for her age, but that she had not reached pubertory, puberty. [0:24:16] Rebecca Hargraves That means to us girls, we know what that means. She did not have a menstrual cycle. However, when the detectives found her, in her panties, were blood. Oh, yeah, that's, so there, they were, they're trying to now say she wasn't a virgin. That's what they're doing today, they're saying that she's not a virgin, and my daddy told me that, that if Mary had had her menstrual cycle, she would have had a cloth with coupons [0:24:42] Dave Reilly Episode 87 attached in her panties, and she did not. And even Governor Slayton, who commuted Leo Frank's sentence from death by hanging to life and imprisonment, and his commutation order said it was menstrual blood. [0:24:57] Rebecca Hargraves That is so terrible. [0:24:58] Dave Reilly Or they would wear red patty coats, but they were, they definitely prepared for their periods [0:25:04] Rebecca Hargraves back then. Right, right. [0:25:06] Cameron M Well, I was 13 when I started, so late 13, and Mary just didn't start yet, which is [0:25:11] Dave Reilly really normal. [0:25:12] Rebecca Hargraves Right. [0:25:13] Dave Reilly But you have to have something in there in your panties. [0:25:15] Cameron M I mean, you can't just let blood go all the way down and try to write, of course, [0:25:18] Dave Reilly things. [0:25:19] Cameron M There's got to be something there. [0:25:20] Rebecca Hargraves So I did some research, and I found that what kind of products did women in 1913 use, and [0:25:25] Dave Reilly they said the same thing. [0:25:26] Rebecca Hargraves My daddy said they would have had a cloth with some pins in it. Right. [0:25:30] Dave Reilly Episode 87 Of course. [0:25:31] Rebecca Hargraves So they were, they were saying that she had lost her, but what explains the blood? [0:25:34] Dave Reilly Like if she wasn't a virgin outside of a menstrual cycle, I don't know how they were squaring [0:25:39] Rebecca Hargraves the circle. I don't know. [0:25:41] Cameron M That's what just threw me for a loop, and I just, I am determined to say that was [0:25:45] Rebecca Hargraves not her menstrual cycle because as most women know, the first time you do it, you know [0:25:51] Dave Reilly what happens. You get blood. Yep. Exactly. Were you going to say something, Dave? Well, I was just going to point out because we go there on this show. If you, if you look at the, so you know, I'm sure everybody watching already knows, but for those of you who don't, there's something called the Talmud. The Talmud is the Jewish holy books, right? A lot of people think, a lot of people think that, oh, they've got, you know, the, the Old Testament. That's their holy book, but it's not. The whole, we're not going to get into it now, but I did a podcast about this with JD Hall about how the rabbis, the Pharisees at the time of Christ had an oral tradition that contradicted the Torah, that, that, that allows what the Torah prohibits. And that was codified after they killed Christ and were, you know, sent off the exile again in Babylon. And so there's something called the Talmud is, is the codification of the oral law of the rabbis. And so we've got up on screen here. This is from Sanhedrin 54B, where a lot of this stuff is. And they're talking about how, you know, the Torah does not deem the intercourse of one who is less than nine years old to be like the intercourse of one who is at least nine years old as for a male's active intercourse to have the legal status of full-fledged intercourse. The minimum age is nine years. And Shmul says that the Torah does not deem the intercourse of a child who is less than three years old to be like that of one who is three years old. Then it goes on to talk about whether it's holocaic to have homosexual intercourse, and of course it says that, you know, if a child who is less than nine years old engages in homosexual intercourse, passively the one who engages in intercourse with him is not liable. So that means that if you rape a nine-year-old male, then the person doing the raping is not liable. [0:27:45] Rebecca Hargraves What the...what planet is this from? [0:27:49] Dave Reilly Because it doesn't seem like earth. But this is the kind of discussions that they're having in these Jewish holy books. And so I think it's important to point out that when we talk about Leo Frank, when we talk about Jeffrey Epstein or Lev Tahor, or all of these other scandals that keep coming up over and over again of Jewish people, raping little kids, there is a reason for it. It's part of the religion. And it's Episode 87 disgusting. And I'm sick and tired of hearing people, but the Muslims, the Muslims, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, sure. Obviously. You're relevant to the conversation that we're having, yeah. Right. It's not the Muslims that are in control of the media, or Hollywood that are sexual... Remember that TV show Cuties? [0:28:29] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, came out. [0:28:30] Dave Reilly And they're like openly sexualizing kids, you know, and then go go to your library and take a look at the books that they got in the children's sections. Well, we're obviously being gasslet about this narrative with Jewish pedophilia, and that's [0:28:44] Rebecca Hargraves the reason that the Leo Frank case has totally unraveled in the last few years especially. [0:28:51] Dave Reilly Have you seen a lot of changes, let's say over the last five years in people's reception to the story that you were telling? [0:29:01] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, yes, definitely. [0:29:03] Cameron M And I'd like to share that if I can. [0:29:07] Rebecca Hargraves The big thing happened in 2019 when the Northern County D.A. Paul Herward, former Governor Roy Barnes, the Rabbi Stephen LeBoeh and the Southeast ADL organization announced through the media that they were starting a conviction integrity unit and the Fulton County Office, D.A. Office, to exonerate Leo Frank. So here's the deal, they announced this decision on the day my great aunt was murdered. [0:29:42] Dave Reilly It's so disrespectful. [0:29:44] Cameron M Yes, and so that's one that I'm only four, ten and three quarters and I weigh about 107 pounds so this little girl got real angry about that. [0:29:55] Dave Reilly Because again, it's a secrecy, it's all secrecy since 1982, everything has been secret, [0:30:02] Cameron M it's political corruption, it's amazing, and my last newsletter, which the newsletters Episode 87 [0:30:07] Dave Reilly are in the book says shame on Georgia because they should be ashamed for what they've done with this case. [0:30:11] Rebecca Hargraves But anyway, so I got angry and I got mad and I started my website, www.littlemarryfagan.com. [0:30:19] Cameron M And I was thinking that, you know, I need to put all these documents because I have a collection, [0:30:22] Dave Reilly I had a collection here at the house of 57 years that I gave last year to Georgia State [0:30:28] Rebecca Hargraves University so that they can't document that it didn't happen or the other point of view are that a lot of stuff have disappeared, the ADL has made sure that things are censored [0:30:41] Cameron M for sure and they still are today, as a matter of fact, you know, we got a couple of our website [0:30:46] Dave Reilly censored, you know, it was terrible because we put like 14 years in one of those websites [0:30:50] Rebecca Hargraves called Flickr. So they're doing that. [0:30:52] Dave Reilly So anyway, I got mad and I got a team together and we just started out doing that and we just [0:30:58] Cameron M started writing about the case on the book and we put the brief of evidences on the Maryfagan [0:31:03] Rebecca Hargraves website, all the historical documents, all the newspapers and then we decided to go a little bit further because I don't know about you, but have you ever seen these old newspapers how yellow are, can you read them? [0:31:15] Cameron M I can't, you know, and I've got good vision but I certainly couldn't read those. [0:31:21] Rebecca Hargraves So we decided that we were going to translate them and so that's what we did, everything, [0:31:26] Dave Reilly Episode 87 when we have a newspaper article now, we've translated most of our articles and right now [0:31:30] Rebecca Hargraves we're doing the first time ever the Georgia Supreme Court records, which is, you know, nobody does, you cannot, if you are going to write a book about this case, you just cannot go to [0:31:41] Cameron M the previous books that have been written because most of the historians of those books are the same religious faith as Leo Frank and they already have an immediate bias and they [0:31:51] Rebecca Hargraves just pair at each other in each of the books and how it goes and they don't change it and [0:31:56] Cameron M they even, I even discovered that Leonard Dennerstein really actually committed academic fraud because he said certain things happen and all he did was quote Harry Goldman's book. [0:32:06] Dave Reilly This is what happened, you know, this, this is something important too and not just for this, for this particular historical moment but other historical things that we will be talking about. I believe David Irving is going to be coming on our show, the son of, no, no, Adam Irving, Adam Irving will be coming on the show, the son of David Irving, the great World War II historian, and he found this too, like in the 1970s and the 80s when he was writing his book, you know, the destruction of Dresden and a lot of this other stuff, he was finding that these academics were taking from already published books and then quoting that as opposed to going back to the actual historical record over and over again and so it's like, you know, one guy writes a book and then somebody quotes this guy and then somebody quotes that guy and it's like a long chain of telephone and everybody is completely ignoring the actual evidence, the actual, the court records, the newspapers and all of this stuff and so that's how a lot of this history goes and even in modern times, I've seen it happen with me, I've seen it happen with you like when I ran for school board, it's like some goofy antifa journalist will come out and then you see it trickle down until all you see it goes on like angry white men and then it gets quoted by like the daily beast and then, you know, Huffington Post will quote the daily beast. [0:33:31] Rebecca Hargraves Well, this is deliberate so they don't have to examine the primary source and just credit the rights. I need a bank network. Yeah. [0:33:37] Cameron M Yeah, that was good. I mean, it just amazed me that they did that and let me share with you, the revision actually [0:33:44] Dave Reilly started of this of the Maryfeng case was in 1952, okay, and this is the book, it's called [0:33:52] Cameron M Episode 87 Guilty or Not Guilty and it was written by Francis X Bush and he started observing with the Georgia Supreme Court statements that they were, that the media and I love what he said [0:34:04] Dave Reilly that he quoted something from the Georgia Supreme Court but let me read you the footnote. [0:34:08] Cameron M He said the above is quoted at length because of the impression created at the time by the [0:34:13] Rebecca Hargraves publicity given to the great jurors dissents which was out of all proportion to that accorded [0:34:19] Cameron M the majority opinion that Frank had from onset in the marked victim of mob terrorism and that's [0:34:26] Dave Reilly what he was saying. [0:34:27] Rebecca Hargraves He saw that comment and so that was, I was glad to see that somebody did it and that was my favorite book. I've got all the books that I read before, my own book and a few other books that are still out there. [0:34:38] Dave Reilly The one book that started all the revisionism was this little book here called, if you can see it. [0:34:44] Rebecca Hargraves Put it right in your face. [0:34:45] Dave Reilly Oh, I'm sorry, I got all my notes because I won't make sure I get the years right. [0:34:48] Rebecca Hargraves 1956, not fell on Georgia by Charles and Malice Samuels. [0:34:52] Dave Reilly And what they say in here is just, it is awful. I mean, I've never read anything and this is where everybody got the same thing from and [0:35:02] Rebecca Hargraves then you see all the other authors making it all and just repeating it just like you said and it just goes on and on and on and on and I mean, it just amazed me how they go, here's about the roof, sit at the rest, could not happen in a Negro either. [0:35:20] Dave Reilly Episode 87 It's poverty's trick and they talk about how poverty was done and everything. [0:35:25] Rebecca Hargraves It just really was, and then they started out with Leo Frank was a Jew. [0:35:32] Dave Reilly But here's what they say, at the time there was little, if any, anti-Semitism in Atlanta. [0:35:39] Rebecca Hargraves So even they have to admit that. [0:35:41] Dave Reilly Have you confronted any? [0:35:42] Cameron M And I did a complete analysis of every book during COVID that was written about the case in [0:35:47] Rebecca Hargraves my library and I went through and I have all the notes and I've written down every single book that promotes the hoax and what page numbers it's on soon, if you know people wanted they can go look themselves now because it's there. Have you confronted any of the more modern authors that might still be around? I think there's just a couple of them but they've been very kind to me. I went to my sister and I attended a session in July about why the Leo Frank was still important [0:36:19] Dave Reilly today by the Jewish community, the Bremen Museum and the Jewish community there and Matthew Bernstein was there who reviewed all the movies and stuff like that. [0:36:29] Rebecca Hargraves In fact he actually agreed with me in his book that I was absolutely right about the murder [0:36:33] Cameron M of Mary Fagan, many series, so that was like, but he wrote a very nice saying in my book [0:36:39] Rebecca Hargraves that I'm the one that knows I'm an expert in the case and that was nice to hear from him. But I didn't confront him on that. [0:36:50] Cameron M Steve Oene is the one in 2003 that really did a heavy duty book of over, I mean it's just [0:36:55] Rebecca Hargraves a remarkable book but here again, you know, he just, he interviewed us, he introduced our family, he taught us, I mean he asked us questions and when I read the first few pages of a book Episode 87 [0:37:08] Cameron M I threw it down. I didn't read it for about, for about a year I couldn't read it because he called my family [0:37:13] Rebecca Hargraves hillbillies and then at the end he's the one that calls Mary voluptuous and flirtatious and [0:37:20] Cameron M then he also said that she worked at a mill factory when she was 10, little did he know [0:37:26] Rebecca Hargraves or did he forget in his notes when he was interviewing the family that that was my other grandmother [0:37:30] Cameron M who happened to be married into the family and she was another Mary Fagan. [0:37:34] Dave Reilly Oh good gracious. [0:37:35] Cameron M So there's been three of us that are Mary Fagan's and my grandmother, Mary Fagan, had a very [0:37:40] Rebecca Hargraves horrible time. [0:37:41] Dave Reilly I got it a couple times but not like she did because she was 15 when she married my grandfather and when she would introduce herself as Mary Fagan, she would get the same thing. She would say you're supposed to be dead. [0:37:52] Rebecca Hargraves What is wrong with people, you know, you're supposed to be dead and that's kind of what [0:37:57] Cameron M happened to me at 13 when I found out about, found out about little Mary Fagan family just did not talk about, talk about it, it was heartbreaking, it destroyed the families. [0:38:08] Rebecca Hargraves I don't know. But a teacher had told you, right? Yes. I'm a military brat that he was in the Air Force, of course, maybe first he jumped ship and he went to the Air Force and so we lived in Japan and Hawaii. So that's where most of the, so he didn't know a lot what was going on case, Mary Fagan [0:38:26] Cameron M Episode 87 case in the 60s because we were out of the country. So when we came back to the mainland, which we were in Hawaii, we came back to the mainland and that's what Hawaii caused the rest of the country. [0:38:38] Dave Reilly We moved to Charleston, South Carolina and my science teacher, Mr. Henry, put us in line [0:38:42] Cameron M and asked us our names and you know, I'm back in the day where it was just different. [0:38:47] Dave Reilly So we would go in line and I said, Mary Fagan, pointed at him, looked at me, looking at me [0:38:53] Cameron M and like, you know, there was a little girl in Atlanta in the 1920s that was murdered by that name. Are you by chance related to her? And I said, I didn't know. [0:39:03] Rebecca Hargraves Well, of course, on 13 traumatized when the boys started saying I was reincarnated and then [0:39:08] Cameron M I was dead, you know, I mean, just destroyed me. [0:39:11] Rebecca Hargraves I mean, I can't tell you I still feel bad pain today when I tell the story. You know, it's just, I was just so traumatized and luckily, we walked home. [0:39:19] Cameron M We had, you know, we had to go home for lunch and all that kind of stuff. [0:39:22] Rebecca Hargraves We didn't do that now, but we walked home and my dad happened to be home because he was [0:39:26] Dave Reilly always flying. [0:39:27] Rebecca Hargraves And I said, Mr. Henry said there was a little girl with my name that was murdered in Atlanta [0:39:33] Cameron M in 1913 and he asked me if I was related and I told him I didn't know. [0:39:38] Dave Reilly Oh boy, I can still say in today's standing there just so distraught and he didn't quite Episode 87 [0:39:45] Cameron M know how to tell me, but I always say that he turned white as white could be. [0:39:48] Rebecca Hargraves I mean, there was just a whiteness about him that of horror. [0:39:53] Dave Reilly And he said, well, I want you to go back tomorrow and tell Mr. Henry that yes, you are related [0:39:57] Cameron M to Little Mary Bacon. [0:39:59] Rebecca Hargraves She was your great aunt and we named you for her. [0:40:03] Dave Reilly So you are her great niece and named Sake. [0:40:07] Cameron M She was murdered in 1913 by Leo Frank and Leo Frank was lynched by a vigilance committee [0:40:14] Rebecca Hargraves for her murder after he went through the court process. And that's all he told me and I said, okay, I'll be real, I'll never be asked that question again. Forget that. You know, I'm no way. Oh my gosh, I have been asked that question all my life, even to this day, I still get [0:40:31] Cameron M it. [0:40:32] Rebecca Hargraves I've never discussed the case ever unless somebody asked me that question. [0:40:36] Dave Reilly I do not go out and introduce myself. [0:40:38] Rebecca Hargraves I had to do that on one of the pockets, Ellis Tyler. [0:40:42] Cameron M And I said, my name is Mary Fagan Keane on the great niece and I never say that when I meet new people, you know what I'm saying is just, if you bring it up, that's okay. But I'm not going to talk about it because it's still traumatic to me as well. [0:40:55] Dave Reilly Episode 87 But you know, Mary, I just know that she's in me, if that makes sense, I don't know how [0:41:00] Rebecca Hargraves to explain it. I think there's a part of me that she has and I really took it to heart. I know I'm not reincarnated, but I just know there's something in there. [0:41:11] Cameron M There's a connection there when I go to the cemetery, you know, I just had experience, this [0:41:17] Dave Reilly wonderful, beautiful, spiritual experiences out there. [0:41:20] Cameron M I have to tell you, they were absolutely stunning, met a lot of great people at the grave too. [0:41:26] Rebecca Hargraves When we did the research here for this book, I was looking and I found a postcard that Mary [0:41:31] Cameron M had written and it's my handwriting exactly. [0:41:34] Rebecca Hargraves Oh my Lord. [0:41:35] Dave Reilly Well, you're such a worthy sister, you know, they just like freaked out and I can't find [0:41:42] Cameron M the picture. I don't know what I did with it, but her handwriting and my handwriting were the exact same. Mary Fagan was just, I said, my handwriting. [0:41:50] Rebecca Hargraves And my brother and sister said, well, it's got to be because we can't write that beautiful [0:41:54] Dave Reilly way. [0:41:55] Cameron M You know, I have a beautiful handwriting, that's one thing I'm proud of, I like that. And probably because the higher being told me that I needed to teach students with [0:42:03] Dave Reilly Episode 87 visual impairment. So they needed to see my handwriting and for, you know, make sure it was legible that they [0:42:08] Rebecca Hargraves can read what we're doing if they were just slightly visually impaired. But yeah, it was amazing that that handwriting just threw me for a loop that, so she did [0:42:17] Cameron M in me and I know she's happy with me with writing this book and she's grateful and that finally [0:42:22] Dave Reilly the truth is coming about or what some of the people in the state of Georgia had done with this Mary Fagan case. Now, one of the things that I kind of wanted to ask about, because I don't think we've really covered it yet, is so there was the trial, there were the Supreme Court trials. He was found guilty. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he was sentenced to death. Was he not? Yes, sentenced to hang. He was sentenced to hang, but if you can kind of walk us through what happened because that's [0:42:51] Rebecca Hargraves not what happened. [0:42:52] Dave Reilly The sentence was never carried out and it was commuted actually, I believe, by the governor of Georgia. So can you walk us through that angle of it and why the vigilance committee did what they did? [0:43:06] Rebecca Hargraves Sure. [0:43:07] Cameron M I'd be glad to. [0:43:08] Rebecca Hargraves So Governor John Slayton was, well, most people don't know, but I'm sure they do now, was a member of the law firm that defended Leo Frank. So that's the first thing that we have to get settled right away. So he, while he was governor, and while the trial was coming on. [0:43:25] Cameron M So he is a member of the law firm that defended Leo Frank. [0:43:30] Rebecca Hargraves And he and the defense team worked together, in my family's opinion, to write the commutation for death by hanging to life in imprisonment. And they had to go through several avenues, they also had to go through like a prison commission [0:43:46] Dave Reilly Episode 87 and the prison commission voted like, I think it was two to one, to refer to the governor [0:43:53] Cameron M or they wanted him to not die by death by hanging but go to life in imprisonment. [0:43:57] Rebecca Hargraves And then a group of Marietta people, ironically, some of those members were part of the vigilance committee. [0:44:04] Dave Reilly And when it addressed the Georgia prison commission and said that we don't believe this, blah, blah, blah, blah, we want him to be executed by hanging the carry out the sentence. [0:44:13] Rebecca Hargraves So that put everything in a different perspective because they didn't do the death by hanging [0:44:19] Dave Reilly and they were very upset, she was a little girl, she was raped, murdered, horribly. And they wanted their own vengeance. [0:44:31] Rebecca Hargraves So governor's slate decided pretty much the last couple days of his governorship, that [0:44:38] Dave Reilly he was going to commute the sentence. [0:44:40] Rebecca Hargraves It was interesting because people had, they were on lookout at the governor's mansion. [0:44:47] Dave Reilly And yes, several people said that the defense attorney's visited the governor and I believe they all wrote it together and that he was paid under the table, which is my family police [0:44:58] Cameron M that he was paid, but I can never find a really evidence, it was, but I'd say it anyway, [0:45:02] Rebecca Hargraves they thought he was bought and paid for. [0:45:04] Cameron M That's what my daddy told. And I believe what my daddy told. So I did, because my oral history during everything I found out was very accurate what my daddy [0:45:11] Rebecca Hargraves Episode 87 said. [0:45:13] Cameron M There's only a couple of things that I had to re-clarify and that was it. So I was really proud of that, but he did say that the family thought that and they wanted to, but then you know, he goes to prison and he's got a gash across his neck, the guy slits his throat, Leo Frank's throat, and he's severely injured and looking to die. [0:45:35] Dave Reilly My daddy said he felt like the Atlanta people were just hoping he would die. [0:45:39] Rebecca Hargraves Does that make sense? [0:45:40] Cameron M I mean, you know, let's just get it over with and this guy killed him and let's let him die, but he didn't. He lived and he survived. And then the Marietta people that were in the bench coming, yeah, I have that postcard too. [0:45:51] Rebecca Hargraves It was a postcard, by the way, that they sold and I have the original postcard over here. So it was a, they decided that they needed to do something. [0:46:03] Cameron M So they had the wealthiest people, the most high society church, going people, no drunk [0:46:13] Rebecca Hargraves snow, no liars, no swears, nothing. [0:46:18] Cameron M They were just all great people in the community came up with the idea of a vigilance committee [0:46:25] Rebecca Hargraves and it was really a lot of men, it just just 25 men that went down that they selected 25 men, but they had like a governing committee, which they governed it. They had a stakeout committee. [0:46:36] Cameron M They had, you know, they had somebody that, okay, we're going to 10, we're fishing and we're over here. When they say they were going to land, you know, that kind of thing. [0:46:44] Rebecca Hargraves Ironically, too, it was the first automobile launching done by an automobile. So they had to have people that could work on the cars that go there. Episode 87 [0:46:51] Cameron M So if you go back in 1913 and find who owned out cars, you automatically know who the vigilance committee members are because they never discovered it until, it wasn't really released until Steve O'Neill's book came out in 2003. I could have released it in 1987 when I wrote the first book, but Daddy and I decided that we knew some families were not aware of that their family member was involved and that we [0:47:12] Rebecca Hargraves didn't feel it was all right to tell them that. [0:47:15] Dave Reilly Right. [0:47:16] Rebecca Hargraves I mean, you know, I guess you can say deep down we're good people, but, you know, people don't like what I have to say and, you know, it's just too bad so sad. [0:47:26] Dave Reilly The truth is the truth and the truth must win. [0:47:28] Cameron M I'm tired of the truth losing to these people and we've got to tell them the truth. [0:47:33] Rebecca Hargraves So the vigilance committee members of 25 did go out and, um, literally, O'Neill Frank, [0:47:38] Cameron M which you showed the picture of, but it was because Governor Slane commuted his sentence and they know he was working with them in the middle of the night and they didn't leave [0:47:44] Rebecca Hargraves until midnight, fire, and most people are not aware, but Governor Slane was chased out [0:47:50] Cameron M of Georgia and he never came back for 50-something years. [0:47:52] Dave Reilly Yeah. [0:47:53] Cameron M He was never welcome again in Georgia again. And then he got the profiles encouraged. [0:47:56] Dave Reilly I believe in 1960 who Walter Matthew paid, played him, uh, Governor Slane, which was totally Episode 87 [0:48:02] Cameron M a propagandized thing. I didn't know about that. [0:48:05] Rebecca Hargraves I learned that from Tyler's podcast the other day and did the research on it and realized [0:48:09] Cameron M that, oh, we were in Japan. That's why Daddy didn't know about it. [0:48:12] Dave Reilly You know, I'm saying we just, you know, we were overseas. [0:48:14] Cameron M You know, we didn't, they don't, they're not going to put a Mary Fagan case story over [0:48:17] Dave Reilly Japan. You know what I'm saying? [0:48:19] Rebecca Hargraves It'll just be, um, in the, in the mainland, so I cannot imagine how much you hate Hollywood and the media. Oh, I hate them. Of course. [0:48:28] Dave Reilly I mean, it's just outrageous. [0:48:29] Rebecca Hargraves What was done to her memory. Everything is parade is the worst thing ever. I mean, between that and the murder of Mary Fagan with John, uh, John Lennon is really a Lord at Mercy. [0:48:41] Dave Reilly And I just, I want to point out too that, you know, what we're talking about here with the vigilance committee and all of this, you know, there is, there is definitely, like, you can look at history, you can look at, uh, you know, what happened in Spain and all of this, like during the inquisition and all, all this kind of stuff. There is a difference between like vengeance and this kind of like wrong-minded, uh, sense of justice, I guess, like retribution or whatever. The point is that he was found guilty, right? By a lawful court multiple times, multiple different courts and was sentenced to death. [0:49:21] Rebecca Hargraves Yes. [0:49:22] Dave Reilly They were, they were enacting out the will of the court. Right. That's what they said. That is not something wrong. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I thought that that was the right thing to Episode 87 do. [0:49:34] Rebecca Hargraves I would argue that this was not even extra judicial. [0:49:37] Dave Reilly Correct. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I would argue this as a case of like extrajudicial murder or any of that. This was because the real, the real miscarriage of justice was the commutation. Right. [0:49:50] Rebecca Hargraves Yeah, of course. [0:49:51] Dave Reilly Yeah. Unbelievable. [0:49:53] Cameron M Absolutely. [0:49:54] Rebecca Hargraves Yeah. It is unbelievable. [0:49:56] Dave Reilly I mean, there's so many different sides of this Mary Fagan case you can go into when you [0:49:58] Rebecca Hargraves just like roll your eyes and like, oh, you've got to be, yeah, I mean, this is just really [0:50:03] Cameron M happened. And it's nine times out of 10, it really didn't happen. [0:50:07] Dave Reilly It's unreal. You can get into and I don't know if we'll have time to get into it today, but it is pointing out the, the founding of the ADL. So that was, that was done by a group called Benébereth. Benébereth, yeah. And Benébereth is this kind of like free Masonic. It's a Jews-only version of free Masonry, right? Essentially. [0:50:31] Rebecca Hargraves And Leo Frank was very active in his local, very active in his local. [0:50:35] Dave Reilly He would present it. Yes. So he was president of his local Benébereth chapter. And so think about it. This group, after all of the court stuff had come out, everybody knew that he was guilty. And they went ahead and created this anti-defamation league, which has spent the last 115, 120 years, however long, demonizing white people, demonizing Christian America, demonizing our culture and our institutions. Episode 87 They've been involved in censoring speech on the internet, censoring speech on college campuses, the whole nine yards. And it's like, this thing was started before, 1940, before the state of Israel, which you could try. Right. And so it's just, I think it's important to talk about maybe we'll find an expert on Benébereth that we can have on some time. And then the insults of calling it an anti-defamation league, when the truth can never be defamatory. They are literally defaming the Fagan family and having to be defaming the Fagan family for 100 years. Yes. It's just unbelievable. [0:51:40] Rebecca Hargraves That's true. And so like what you were talking about, what happened in the 20, Jonathan Greenblatt at the ADL. Oh yeah, let me get onto that one. That one. [0:51:49] Dave Reilly That one. The disgraced Starbucks water salesman. I know. This was so cool. [0:51:53] Cameron M And my wife and I was really going on and everything else like this. [0:51:57] Rebecca Hargraves And then like, so everything's really starting to heat up. [0:52:00] Dave Reilly And in 2021. [0:52:02] Rebecca Hargraves Not a Greenblatt started posting about how he, how Leo Frank was a hero. [0:52:07] Dave Reilly And he was, yeah, and stuff. [0:52:10] Rebecca Hargraves And so I put it on my website. And it was the first time for a community note, thanks to Elon Musk. [0:52:17] Dave Reilly And so when he was community noted, we figured out 98% of the comments were against Jonathan [0:52:23] Rebecca Hargraves Greenblatt. [0:52:24] Cameron M And a lot of the people spoke up and said Leo Frank was addicted. [0:52:30] Rebecca Hargraves He raped and murdered a little girl at age 13. And they just tore him apart. He actually had to cut off the comments to only people that were allowed to comment on his Episode 87 [0:52:40] Dave Reilly comments. Unbelievable. [0:52:42] Rebecca Hargraves Unbelievable. Yeah. So it's been going on since 2021. So it's even happening in 2025. [0:52:46] Dave Reilly And again, it gets the same stuff again. [0:52:49] Rebecca Hargraves You know, everybody's just screaming at him telling him what a horrible thing you could do. [0:52:53] Cameron M And he never changes it. [0:52:55] Rebecca Hargraves He posted the same thing every year on his luncheon. [0:52:58] Dave Reilly That's unbelievable. Shameless. Listen, Jews out there, please, give me a call, right? You've clearly got a bad PR problem. I need a better job. You know, I could use some money. I need to get out of here. I need a new deck. I'm just saying, like, there's ways that this could be talked about. And then you would start policing your own community, right? Instead of like putting people like Jonathan Greenblatt calling Leo Frank a hero, I don't know, maybe ostracize him and put normal people. No, no, no, no. We can't do that. [0:53:30] Rebecca Hargraves This is an insane perspective. We don't want Jews to have better PR. Obviously not. It's a joke. [0:53:35] Dave Reilly I'm joking. It's a joke. But I'm, it's like at every turn, the every decision that they make is like the worst possible decision. It's amazing to me. They protect their own at any cost, at any cost, and meanwhile, we throw our own under the bus. [0:53:53] Rebecca Hargraves That is absolutely true. If you have any questions for Mary, please get them in. [0:53:58] Dave Reilly I think we have a few. We have a few. We have a few. We're just going to go through these really quick before we let you go. It's the 27th. Already the 27th. [0:54:06] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, goodness. Episode 87 [0:54:07] Dave Reilly This month is just absolutely flown by Jinks and Mia Coke and not just any kind of coke. I want a Mexican coke. They make the best coke. [0:54:15] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, that's what I drink. [0:54:16] Cameron M I have cases of them. [0:54:17] Rebecca Hargraves I don't know. So anyway, but the one thing I wanted to let you know there is an effort right now today in Bonnie Willis's office with the Fools and County D.A. Bonnie Willis who you're very [0:54:30] Cameron M well familiar with with the Trump case. [0:54:32] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, yes. [0:54:33] Cameron M They are in the process due to Governor Barnes and rabbi, the rabbi student, and the AVL looking [0:54:40] Dave Reilly at reviewing and asking for a new trial for Leo Frank to come. [0:54:44] Rebecca Hargraves What's right. So that's happening right now. [0:54:46] Dave Reilly And of course, it's going to be totally flawed because it's like, how can you have a new trial if you don't even have the transcript of the old trial? Right. The primary evidence. [0:54:57] Cameron M They denied me open records, too. [0:55:00] Rebecca Hargraves Right. [0:55:01] Cameron M They won't give me the records at all. And Georgia's state has said, Georgia, the state of Georgia has said that the records on [0:55:06] Rebecca Hargraves Episode 87 Leo Frank are state secrets. What? Yeah. I didn't freeze. [0:55:12] Cameron M Yeah. [0:55:13] Rebecca Hargraves I don't give up. [0:55:14] Cameron M I really don't. [0:55:15] Dave Reilly And they just need to. [0:55:16] Rebecca Hargraves I'm sure somebody's hoping that, you know, I go bye-bye, but I'm not going to give up. You know, and I also did the several times they said that when the conviction integrity is you know, they had a whole slew of people, judges, everybody part of it. [0:55:27] Dave Reilly And they said there was no, no records at all in this case. [0:55:30] Rebecca Hargraves So how did they form it? [0:55:31] Dave Reilly Right. [0:55:32] Cameron M Who was there? Who was talking about it? [0:55:34] Dave Reilly You mentioned it in the newspaper accounts, but there's no records of it. [0:55:37] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, yeah. So the good thing is so that, and I really found this out. I really like saying this is that I love the University of Georgia, but in this case they [0:55:45] Dave Reilly did wrong. [0:55:46] Rebecca Hargraves They told me they had 70 pieces of text and stuff that alluded to the conviction integrity Episode 87 [0:55:52] Cameron M unit. They had about a month and a half later, they denied it and said there were no records. [0:55:57] Rebecca Hargraves Wow. Well, you know they exist. [0:56:00] Dave Reilly Somebody has access to them. Yeah. All right. We have a super chat question from book track groups who send $10 on RumbleMerry. I have heard that the modern ADL are just owned by Marxists. What is your assessment of the NGO and where can I buy your book? So why don't you address the ADL point and we'll put, we've already talked about the book. [0:56:21] Rebecca Hargraves You can get it at Amazon.com. [0:56:24] Dave Reilly The murder of Little Mary Fagan is available there. It is also available on the website, LittleMerryFagan.com. So if you want to buy the books and we'll put some links in the show notes. I believe we already have this website linked in the show notes below. But if you want to address your thoughts on the anti-defamation league, well, they've changed drastically. It's unfortunate because during the 70s and 80s, the Fagan family and the ADL. [0:56:51] Rebecca Hargraves The ADL did work together. [0:56:54] Dave Reilly We were in discussion. [0:56:55] Rebecca Hargraves They wanted to know how we felt about certain things. But when Alonzo Man came forward in 1982, and after certain people passed, it changed. [0:57:04] Cameron M The group changed and we were no longer involved. [0:57:07] Rebecca Hargraves Again, they did things in secret with the state of Georgia, with the pardon. So in 1983, they denied the pardon to Leo Frank based on Alonzo Man's testimony. But after that, the Georgia Pardons and Peroles Board and the Jewish groups that we've [0:57:21] Dave Reilly been talking about met in secret for over a year and a half to write the new pardon, which was given in 1986 without addressing his guilt or innocence. Episode 87 [0:57:33] Rebecca Hargraves So at this point, I have no relationship with them and I don't study them. I just, when they post stuff, I just respond that way. I really don't have a definitive feeling about the Marxism at all. I just don't know. [0:57:49] Dave Reilly I just, you know, to me, they're made as just a despicable evil group, that's how I feel. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's, you know, there were definitely accusations of them being Marxist. But I don't think it's necessarily that they were a Marxist group. I just think that they are a very, they protect the Jews group. And so when you look at who the Marxists were, they were disproportionately Jewish. And so the anti-defamation league would rush to their defense not because they were Marxists but because they were Jews. Of course. Of course. So there were books like The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation by Father Dennis Fahy published 1952. I know that there's like a whole chapter on the anti-defamation league there that was given an impromotor by a bishop of the Catholic Church, by the way. So that actually leads me, what religion was Mary? [0:58:41] Rebecca Hargraves Fagan. [0:58:43] Cameron M I get that a lot. [0:58:44] Rebecca Hargraves I'm Catholic. My grandfather's and told me they were Baptist. [0:58:50] Cameron M So she went to the first Christian church, is all I know. [0:58:54] Rebecca Hargraves And I don't believe she was Catholic, but you know, later on, like we became Catholic. Does that make sense? I don't know how to explain it. [0:59:04] Cameron M Everybody just went to church. It's what I want to say in that community. [0:59:06] Rebecca Hargraves That's what happened. Everybody, the whole community and Mary, either where she was from, they all went to church [0:59:11] Cameron M and it was pretty much, I guess, the same church and it could have different religious views. So I just know that you know, attended the first Baptist church and she was playing [0:59:19] Rebecca Hargraves sleeping beauty before she was murdered and that kind of thing. Episode 87 [0:59:23] Cameron M But I became Catholic because my mother was Catholic and Italian, full-blooded, and could not [0:59:29] Rebecca Hargraves marry my father unless he signed paperwork that all children born would be Catholic. [0:59:34] Dave Reilly Hey, let's go, W-W-Catholics. Now, do you happen to know, do you know if she was baptized? [0:59:42] Rebecca Hargraves Yes, I think she was, yes, she was baptized because my grandfather said they all were. [0:59:47] Dave Reilly Okay, so I mean, like, this is, I mean, at age 13, you're not, I mean, she's in heaven. There's no way around it. Of course. I don't know if she's a martyr or not. I don't think you could necessarily, she's not a martyr for the faith, but I mean, this poor girl. Maybe we should be praying for the intercession of Mary Fagan in these days to bring down the anti-defamy. She's making me something like that. Mary, that does it for us on the topical super chats. We've got a lot of non-topical super chats that we will go over and some commercials that we'll read. But if you want to plug your website again, she, you know, or I'll do it anyway. Okay. There it is. We've got, she is on ex at Fagan Keen, P-H-A-G-A-N, K-E-A-N, don't forget the hyphen. And there's a hyphen there, absolutely. She should definitely be following her on ex. She posts a lot of great content about the case. And then also her website, little Mary Fagan dot com. We just got a last minute super chat here. Let me see if I can read it. My computer's acting buggy. This is a thank you, Mary, for the test of Daniel 007 personal account. [1:01:01] Rebecca Hargraves I'm so blind. [1:01:02] Dave Reilly You're going to have to read this. Thank you, Mary, for the testimonial and personal account. Keep fighting. Rebecca, have you heard of new American vision, any chance of a collab in the future, cross-pollination in the space always helps God bless? [1:01:14] Rebecca Hargraves I have not. I have not. [1:01:16] Dave Reilly We will look into it now. Thank you so much. So yeah. But yeah, thank you so much for joining us. Before you go, Mary, I just wanted to tell you that you are such a worthy namesake for [1:01:26] Rebecca Hargraves Mary Fagan and the word that you've done and exposing, exposing the truth. It's such a powerful thing. It's so important. And we can't thank you enough for what you've done. [1:01:38] Dave Reilly Episode 87 And I'm sure that she would be so appreciative that you've done this for her. I know she is. I know she is. We really want to thank you for coming on. [1:01:47] Rebecca Hargraves Okay. Thank you. [1:01:49] Dave Reilly We'll talk to you soon. Bye. [1:01:51] Rebecca Hargraves Bye. [1:01:52] Dave Reilly Bye. I got it. Technical issues. Well, what a delightful woman. She was so nice. Yeah. We did a little sound check last. I was just like, this is going to be great. [1:02:07] Rebecca Hargraves You know. I retract everything I've ever said about Southern accents now. [1:02:11] Dave Reilly Yeah, they're beautiful. Very good. Okay. Now on to the random superchats that we've got. Reinhardt sent $10. Fuentes is crashing like a meteor lately with these shitty takes, punching right tone policing, concern trolling, discouraging activism, denouncing intolerance on ironically, et cetera. [1:02:26] Rebecca Hargraves I have taken about a week off of watching Fuentes. I can't even open on this, but I don't like this punching right thing. [1:02:34] Dave Reilly If this is true, it needs a second look. I love Reinhardt and is Nick punching right who's talking about this whole thing is about the kid that dressed up as a Nazi. [1:02:45] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, I did see that. [1:02:46] Dave Reilly He did throw some shade at gifts on given and I really like her. [1:02:50] Rebecca Hargraves So who's that? Her name is Melissa. She did that tweet about you're a guy that like hangs out with a black rapper. And this is like a nationalist talking about the Nazi. [1:03:01] Dave Reilly This whole thing is stupid. This whole thing is stupid. Episode 87 [1:03:04] Rebecca Hargraves Like I just don't get it. [1:03:06] Dave Reilly I don't get like when you when you don't like a person, I don't know why you can just not talk about him, but everybody's talking about him because he's like one of the most, if not the most influential person on the right right now. So yeah, but he was talking about, but that could that argument could be made to Nick. [1:03:20] Rebecca Hargraves Like why even address this? [1:03:21] Dave Reilly I don't know. I don't know. Not my monkeys. Not my zoo. [1:03:26] Rebecca Hargraves I've never heard that before. [1:03:29] Dave Reilly You haven't heard that one before? [1:03:31] Rebecca Hargraves Oh, yeah. That's adorable. [1:03:33] Dave Reilly Reinhardt sent $25. I think after all this time in exile, he sees the light of mainstream acceptance at the end of the tunnel in his desperately clawing at it. Anyway, that he can. [1:03:40] Rebecca Hargraves What a coward or worse, yet trader, bro, well, we don't, that might be true. [1:03:44] Dave Reilly That might be true. I don't think that's true at all. [1:03:46] Rebecca Hargraves The something that we need to keep in mind with Nick is that everything that he says needs [1:03:51] Dave Reilly to be approached with skepticism, just like we do with everybody else. Everybody. Everybody. Like don't plan trust. Don't wait for superhero man to come save you. You have to save you. You have to save you. You need to be. You're going to save us. Maybe he will. He will be out in the desert at one o'clock in the morning, dragging a 50 pound sled of water. I know. Fighting rattlesnakes. I try not to let anybody in the movement be the arbiter of truth for me and to look skeptically Episode 87 [1:04:22] Rebecca Hargraves at everything they say. However, I do have a problem doing that with Devon Stack. I'm like, oh, Devon Stack said it. It must be true. [1:04:29] Dave Reilly Yeah. It's because it's like nine times out of it. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. In my opinion, if there's somebody doing something that you disagree with, unless I mean, just like, why can't we just continue attacking Hasbro people, like the people that are obviously getting paid $7,000 to post this bullshit about Israel, you know, Dinesh D'Souza, James Lindsey, these types of like, if we start attacking our own, no matter what, we're going to wind up, fucking the whole thing up. Well, that's not true. We need unity. We have to. We have to root out the people. People out there that are like trying to stoke some sort of conflict between Paul Miller and Nick. And I think that's stupid, you know, like everybody's got their own thing. Everybody's got what they can contribute to the movement, or whatever this is, the cause, however you want to put it. [1:05:18] Rebecca Hargraves The cause. [1:05:19] Dave Reilly And we've all got to contribute what we can. And we're not all going to be activists. We're not all going to be, you know, X, Y, or Z thing. So we've just got to do what we can and what we got where we are. [1:05:29] Rebecca Hargraves That's true. [1:05:30] Dave Reilly I mean, Nick would have to really screw up for me to say anything about him because I do [1:05:33] Rebecca Hargraves not want grouper backlash. No. So I'll glaze him all day just to avoid the backlash, the backlash. [1:05:38] Dave Reilly The back. Dude, everybody is saying, I'm like seeing it all over the place now, or it's backlash over this, backlash. I know, we should do it. We should do like one of those. [1:05:46] Rebecca Hargraves We should have our guy do a couple. We should clip. [1:05:49] Dave Reilly Yeah. Like every time that somebody says backlash on like MSNBC or something, the boom man sent $20 on entropy. Can't talk about Bitcoin. Can't simp for blonde. You guys make it hard to send you money. [1:06:02] Rebecca Hargraves Check it. Episode 87 [1:06:03] Dave Reilly Great show. Keep up the good work. Thank you, Mr. Boom Man. Happy Halloween. It's really easy to send us money at the backlash. Oh, also, you can, we've got somebody who emailed us. They want to send us a check. Sweet. We will take a check. We will take a check. Please make it up for $7,000 to the backlash. [1:06:20] Rebecca Hargraves Two days of who's trying to improve PR for Jews. [1:06:23] Dave Reilly Can't trust talent. I'm joking. I'm joking. And like if they hired somebody to like destroy their image, they're doing an excellent [1:06:34] Rebecca Hargraves job. [1:06:35] Dave Reilly Yeah. I literally could not think of how to do it better. It's wonderful. [1:06:40] Rebecca Hargraves Yeah. [1:06:41] Dave Reilly Pride comes before the fall. Well, it comes before the fall, but if you would like to send us money for no reason at [1:06:49] Rebecca Hargraves all other than the send us money, you can do that to the backlash at PO Box 8, 5, 3 Post [1:06:57] Dave Reilly Falls, Idaho, 8, 38, 7, 7, 7, of course, every, every send helps. Everything that you send us is used to help make wonderful content that you've done. Yeah. [1:07:09] Rebecca Hargraves See what I've done here? I left a podcast with a guy whose wife is Jewish so that I could join a podcast with an actual Jew. That's what I did. [1:07:17] Dave Reilly I thought I was a fed Jewish fed. Ah, there we go. Yeah. Riley, real Jewish name. De Guano on the other side. Rossioli on the other side. Okay. Rain it. Rain it in. [1:07:28] Rebecca Hargraves I'm just saying. Episode 87 [1:07:29] Dave Reilly By the way, I had like the best Italian sausage over the weekend from where? This little food truck, this cigar lounge. We had this big prohibition party so everybody dressed up like flappers from like the 1920s. And buddy of mine owns a food truck and it was like being back on the East Coast. It was so good. I bought a second Italian sausage and rigatoni to bring home to my wife. I'm like, you need to taste this. Taste it. Taste it. This is how I want dinner to taste. Okay, honey. Please. Good. Prago coming out of a classical coming out of a. That is not your underselling your wife criminally, who is literally a gourmet. I know. She's been asking me. Every time I come over here, she's like, oh, do you want to eat? I just whip something up. I'm just seeing some some steak. I'm just going to reverse sear it and here's like the most delicious potato salad you ever had. She's a. Yeah. Do you want some pumpkin? Or maybe my wife's main signature. We went to a friend's house for dinner on Friday night and so, you know, we really can bring anything. And they were like, just bring a salad. My wife makes something called a walled dwarf salad. Oh, it's so good. Oh, it's so good. I think we made it when Jake shields us too. I've had it three times. Yeah. It's so, it makes me want to eat salad. It's like raisins and grapes and then like a homemade mayonnaise mustard. [1:08:46] Rebecca Hargraves For my birthday, I ate the cake on stream. It was a yellow apricot coffee cake with, with strudel on top. [1:08:55] Dave Reilly Yeah. [1:08:56] Rebecca Hargraves Strudel topping. [1:08:57] Dave Reilly Yeah. I. Listen, we got married. [1:09:00] Rebecca Hargraves I gained like 80 pounds. [1:09:01] Dave Reilly And remember, I remember hanging out with, I remember hanging out with Brittany Pettybone, like right after we got married and Brittany's like, so how are you going to, like, how are you going to not get fat? And you're like, I was like, I'm just going to get fat and take it off like, I'll be able [1:09:13] Rebecca Hargraves to. That's a later problem. [1:09:15] Dave Reilly Your day. Ah, blue eyes, white dragons and $10 on entropy. Dave and the event of a Christina Grimmie fan at the meet and greet tonight. Are you team human shield or team not yet? [1:09:28] Rebecca Hargraves What? I saw somebody talking about this and I don't know what. Episode 87 [1:09:31] Dave Reilly No, no, no, I was pulling this. I don't even know who Christina Grimmie is. She's some sort of internet personality who covers popular songs on YouTube. [1:09:39] Rebecca Hargraves Bro, I don't know. [1:09:41] Dave Reilly Somebody, somebody tell me, somebody tell me. I don't know what this chat means. Chat? What does the chat mean? Anyway, last minute super chats on any topic we are still accepting for the time being. But first, we've got to give a big special thank you shout out to our sponsors. But number one, would be Atlas Bullion, your premier internet place to go for Golden Silver. I don't know if you've been seen, but the LBMA has been screwing the silver market over. It went up to $54 and they've been naked shorting it ever since. [1:10:14] Rebecca Hargraves So silver is down to $47.11, gold hovering at $4,000, $5.85 down about $400 from a week ago. [1:10:24] Dave Reilly So now might be a good time to buy at AtlasBullion.com slash backlash. And I'm bringing that up because I just saw earlier today on zero hedge, they're saying that we are going to run out of money to pay the military by November 15th. So listen, if they're not going to have any money to pay the military, by November 15th, the EBT apocalypse is definitely happening. It's going to get bad. Am I going to lose my health insurance? Probably. It's going to not be good. So make sure that you are prepared in the case of YMAR-style hyperinflation by going to AtlasBullion.com slash the backlash, start stacking. Precious metals, they've got silver subscriptions as low as $55 a month, gold subscriptions as low as $200 a month. They've got plans for your kids. They've got a way, if you are older, legacy builders. I don't know if you actually have to be older for that or whatever. And of course, if you want to make like some sort of like a big massive, you know, going to buy a half million dollars worth of gold, Kenzie can work with you on that. Please do. We do make a very small, tiny, nearly insignificant commission off of the golden silver that we got. But it counts. But it does count every penny. So AtlasBullion.com slash the backlash. We also have to give a big shout out to Northeida hotel company who is currently giving screen. I'm not screaming. Do I need to up my compression? I don't know. The audience really pisses them off. [1:11:50] Rebecca Hargraves Northeida hotel. Tell that filthy Italian to stop screaming into his mic. [1:11:55] Dave Reilly The reverb. The reverb. Northeida hotel company. Oh, that's so much better. They've got skin care. That doesn't mess with your endocrine. Why did I just listen into my microphone? Have you been, I've been binge watching. Northeida hotel. I've been binge watching these videos of like black people making coffee with their nails. In the wake of this EBT thing. And it's just crazy. We're going to have to get a compilation together for Wednesday because I think that this EBT thing is going to be like a really big issue on Wednesday. But anyway, you cannot buy soap with EBT, but you can get free shipping on orders over $100. So if you're sick and tired of skin care pack with chemicals, you can't pronounce. You're going to have to go to IdahoTalo.com. They are a proud sponsor of this show. They are also, they did a pre-release or a pre-order. They made a soap based on Pacific Northwest gorilla. Oh, really? Episode 87 Yes. That's going to be coming out soon. Fireside forest, tallo soap. No way. And it smells amazing. So you can pre-order that at IdahoTalo.com. And then, of course, we have to give a big shout out to Antelope Hill Publishing, who is fighting to keep history alive amidst this regime of anti-white censorship, publishing a new generation of dissident radical and right-wing researchers, philosophers, polemicists, and writers. They have an eclectic catalog that includes veteran right-wing authors and academics like Carrie Bolton, Dr. Ricardo DeShane and Paul Cursey, as well as newer figures like Lord Miles Routledge of Afghanistan, Josh Neill, and Christian Seikor. In addition to a long list of original translations and modern reprints of otherwise inaccessible historical works from eras, such as Fascist Italy, National Socialist Germany, and even Medieval Europe. Their original works include groundbreaking investigations into the causes and funding behind transgenderism in the opioid crisis. Books on Christian nationalism and American folktales additionally, Antelope Hill also contributes to the regeneration of our culture and rebirth of our family values. Through their top quality fiction, including books like Let Them Look West and World Separated and a collection of beautifully illustrated and wholesome children's books. Whatever your interest is, your bound to find books that you like at Antelope Hill, all professionally published with cover art that will grace your bookshelves, help us and help our people by checking out companies that share our values and work to preserve the birthright of our history, visit Antelope Hill Publishing today. And of course they've got the big new books they've got is This Culture of Critique by Kevin MacDonald. We've got a copy right here if you haven't read it. It is required reading, and then this new book, Rise of the Reich, which is freshly published, dusted off from World War II. So you can read those books, get edgimicated. They also have these self-worth again awards, which is fun. For the people that deserve it. And we've got, this week I'm going to do a little bit more work on the website. We've got, I put my book recommendations on the website. You still need to get me those. But Antelope Hill has also given me a list of their recommended reading. Okay. So we'll get that added to the website as well. We also need to figure out what our discount code is. If you use discount code LP, you'll get 10% off, maybe 5% off your order using discount code LP. [1:15:09] Rebecca Hargraves Yeah, really. Thank you so much for joining us. [1:15:12] Dave Reilly We are going to be at the Prairie Pavilion tonight. 5 p.m. Bring in some pizza. We'll be having a good the time. Getting to meet and network with other people in the community. Alexander sent $25, sending money for no reason. Cheers, guys. The reason is that we need it. Amen. Thank you so much. Book track groove sent $10. Are you guys going to talk about the primaries for the midterm? Are you going to call them if they have ridden a horse? [1:15:39] Rebecca Hargraves I don't know. [1:15:40] Dave Reilly Maybe. Do you think that riding a horse makes them more likely to win? [1:15:44] Rebecca Hargraves I don't know. I think he asks this. I don't want to project on him. [1:15:47] Dave Reilly He didn't ask Mary Fagan if she has ridden a horse. But I think he cares about whether or not men have ridden a horse because it creates like an old timing mystique. Stetson. Like every man should have Episode 87 ridden a horse. Every man should ride a horse at least once. Yeah. I think that's it. Well, we will cover maybe some of the midterms at some point, depending on how the schedule lines are. Probably what the Monday, depending on who's going to be the guest on Monday. [1:16:17] Rebecca Hargraves Keith Woods. [1:16:19] Dave Reilly Keith Woods is going to be coming on to talk about the unrest in Ireland. Of course, someone raped a 10-year-old, right? Also in France, by the way, I saw there was a 13-year-old. What is up with people doing this to kids? It's all the baby. They're pedophiles. Yeah. Well, you know. And you're mostly Muslims, but over here, we've got a different issue clearly. But anyway, yes. So Keith Woods will be joining us. Maybe we'll talk about the midterms a little bit. I don't really know how much matters with the midterms. I know who cares. What matters is the local stuff that really does matter who you vote for for school board. That is usually up for this election. School boards, water districts, highway districts, mayor, city council. These are things that actually matter because it has direct local impact to where you live. And so I would vote on those things. And I might abstain from the national level stuff. Well, I can't wait. The midterms, that's like next year, isn't it? That's not this election. This election is a local election. [1:17:32] Rebecca Hargraves I don't care because I'm not voting at any of them. [1:17:35] Dave Reilly You should vote? No. You should vote. Yeah, come on. No. [1:17:40] Rebecca Hargraves You're voting for Dan Goukin, aren't you? [1:17:41] Dave Reilly Dan Goukin for mayor. We're going to see him tonight, right? You might be coming out. Big fan. I hear it. Thank you so much for joining us. [1:17:48] Rebecca Hargraves This is the backlash. We'll see you on Wednesday. [1:17:50] Dave Reilly Bye-bye.